Jake Clifford

Billy

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Clifford had a great year in under 20s when he was 19 and a great year in reserve grade when he was 20.
Crossland didn't have a great year in under 20s, because he went straight to reserve grade at 18, missed his 19 year because of covid - and this is his 20 year.
I once saw a 19 year old kid debut for the Knights. I had been really impressed with him all year in under 20s and then reserve grade, but the kid had a stinker of a first game - possibly one of the worst games ever played in Knights colours. He probably got thrown on the scrapheap after that game, but on the off chance, does anyone know whatever happened to that Kurt Gidley kid??? Probably working as a butcher in the family business i'd say. He'd never make it as a footballer after that game when he was 19.
 

HarVeeGee13

Gavin Hanrahan
I’m not basing it on one game. I’m basing it on who we already have signed for 2022. There’s four spine spots. Ideally you have one extra player for each position, maybe two for hooker since it’s so physical, with those players being a mixture of specialists and utilities.

We have 11 spine players and utilities on the books in 2021, which is possibly a little too many, while 1-2 injuries to the outside backs or the pack leaves us looking a bit skinny - big legacy of the Brown years is that we’ve been left with a lot of versatile “do a job” players but a little short on quality specialist depth. I think probably this off-season the club will look to find a bench/depth forward who’s a bit of an upgrade on the likes of King, Sue etc, and a good first grade ready outside back on a short term deal while Adzy continues to work with the prospects we have (apparently we talked to Staggs per Toohey’s News), just to create a situation where a long-term injury to Best, Klemmer or a Saifiti hurts us a little bit less.

Ponga, Hodgson, Clifford, Pearce, Sasagi and Brailey are already signed for 2022. Watson, Hoy, Mann, Crossland, Randall, Green unsigned. The club is apparently already trying to re-sign Hoy, who covers 6 and 1. Sasagi is a half and I think regarded as a bit more of a prospect than Phoenix. I think Green will retire and there’ll be interest in Mann from other clubs and he’ll leave. That leaves at most 2 spots between Watson, Randall and Crossland, assuming the club doesn’t sign someone else. Watson I think the club will want to keep, he’s in our best 17 no matter who we have available. So that leaves likely one spot for Randall & Crossland, noting that the club doesn’t really have a specialist back-up hooker to cover Brailey. I haven’t even mentioned the likes of Luke Huth & Mitch Black yet.

It’s not that I think he’s got no talent and will never make it; it’s that I think the coaching staff are pretty set on Clifford as the future 7, and it’s difficult to see where Phoenix fits as either a long-term prospect or even as a depth player going forward...
 

ChrisT

David Boyd
I’m not basing it on one game. I’m basing it on who we already have signed for 2022. There’s four spine spots. Ideally you have one extra player for each position, maybe two for hooker since it’s so physical, with those players being a mixture of specialists and utilities.

We have 11 spine players and utilities on the books in 2021, which is possibly a little too many, while 1-2 injuries to the outside backs or the pack leaves us looking a bit skinny - big legacy of the Brown years is that we’ve been left with a lot of versatile “do a job” players but a little short on quality specialist depth. I think probably this off-season the club will look to find a bench/depth forward who’s a bit of an upgrade on the likes of King, Sue etc, and a good first grade ready outside back on a short term deal while Adzy continues to work with the prospects we have (apparently we talked to Staggs per Toohey’s News), just to create a situation where a long-term injury to Best, Klemmer or a Saifiti hurts us a little bit less.

Ponga, Hodgson, Clifford, Pearce, Sasagi and Brailey are already signed for 2022. Watson, Hoy, Mann, Crossland, Randall, Green unsigned. The club is apparently already trying to re-sign Hoy, who covers 6 and 1. Sasagi is a half and I think regarded as a bit more of a prospect than Phoenix. I think Green will retire and there’ll be interest in Mann from other clubs and he’ll leave. That leaves at most 2 spots between Watson, Randall and Crossland, assuming the club doesn’t sign someone else. Watson I think the club will want to keep, he’s in our best 17 no matter who we have available. So that leaves likely one spot for Randall & Crossland, noting that the club doesn’t really have a specialist back-up hooker to cover Brailey. I haven’t even mentioned the likes of Luke Huth & Mitch Black yet.

It’s not that I think he’s got no talent and will never make it; it’s that I think the coaching staff are pretty set on Clifford as the future 7, and it’s difficult to see where Phoenix fits as either a long-term prospect or even as a depth player going forward...
Sure I read Green was done at the end of this season and was taking up a role within the coaching staff?
 

slotmachine

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Clifford won't be competing with Crossland if Crossland doesn't have a contract with the Knights.
Plenty of talk about how rubbish Clifford is, Crossland a better defender etc but the facts are Clifford is here until the end of 2023 and Crossland is unemployed in six months time. That says plenty about how the club rates them.

This is the same conversation that was had when Watson came, about how there was some competition with Lamb, when in reality the coach had him inked in at 6 the minute be was signed.
 
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Billy

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Clifford won't be competing with Crossland if Crossland doesn't have a contract with the Knights.
Plenty of talk about how rubbish Clifford is, Crossland a better defender etc but the facts are Clifford is here until the end of 2023 and Crossland is unemployed in six months time. That says plenty about how the club rates them.

This is the same conversation that was had when Watson came, about how there was some competition with Lamb, when in reality the coach had him inked in at 6 the minute be was signed.
Brown signed players and gave them an armchair ride to a firstgrade spot, whether they were any good or not.
O'Brien has already shown that any player who, to quote Scotty from marketing, has a go will get a go.
Frankly, if Clifford comes here and puts in the same effort he is at the Cowboys, he won't last long. I'm a big fan of the playmaking ability and vision Clifford has shown when he has played against us, and in a few other games i've watched, but he clearly needs to work harder in defence, as do all the Cowboys I suppose.
 

member 2299

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Clifford's has not had much opportunity to show his talents as the squad in Townsville has not been performing well and as Brandy Alexander says, they are a lazy bunch. A change of scene and following our full strength forward pack could well be the stimulus to his improving out of sight particularly with a year with Pearce.

Obi must see something of value in the kid.
 

HarVeeGee13

Gavin Hanrahan
He’s also been stuck playing as a low possession half down one wide channel on the left side of the field a lot of the games he’s played for the Cowboys, which doesn’t play to his strengths at all. He’s not a guy who’ll throw the magic pass a lot or beat three guys with footwork to create a try. He’s similar to Blake Green in a lot of ways, plays at his best when he’s allowed to take charge more, let him follow the play, bring guys onto the ball, straighten up the attack and create space for others etc. Pearce plays best with an organising five-eighth who will allow him to roam around more, get into second receiver and play in space with a running start, not have to worry about what tackle it is etc, and I think Jake can do that for him.

Clifford’s also an incredibly naturally gifted kicker, in terms of both long & short kicking. Kick selection still needs work and he does come up with the odd clanger, but if he was already perfect we wouldn’t be able to afford him. He should improve our ability to dominate field position and build pressure.
 

cowboyman

Andrew 'Joey' Johns
He’s also been stuck playing as a low possession half down one wide channel on the left side of the field a lot of the games he’s played for the Cowboys, which doesn’t play to his strengths at all. He’s not a guy who’ll throw the magic pass a lot or beat three guys with footwork to create a try. He’s similar to Blake Green in a lot of ways, plays at his best when he’s allowed to take charge more, let him follow the play, bring guys onto the ball, straighten up the attack and create space for others etc. Pearce plays best with an organising five-eighth who will allow him to roam around more, get into second receiver and play in space with a running start, not have to worry about what tackle it is etc, and I think Jake can do that for him.

Clifford’s also an incredibly naturally gifted kicker, in terms of both long & short kicking. Kick selection still needs work and he does come up with the odd clanger, but if he was already perfect we wouldn’t be able to afford him. He should improve our ability to dominate field position and build pressure.
You mustn’t be watching the games real well. Clifford plays on the right not the left.
 

cowboyman

Andrew 'Joey' Johns
Clifford won't be competing with Crossland if Crossland doesn't have a contract with the Knights.
Plenty of talk about how rubbish Clifford is, Crossland a better defender etc but the facts are Clifford is here until the end of 2023 and Crossland is unemployed in six months time. That says plenty about how the club rates them.

This is the same conversation that was had when Watson came, about how there was some competition with Lamb, when in reality the coach had him inked in at 6 the minute be was signed.
You’re game bringing up a certain name there.
Damn Nathan Brown not playing the world beater that was Lamb :giggle:
 

cowboyman

Andrew 'Joey' Johns
Literally just in that one game vs the Titans a week or so ago hahaha. Nothing funnier than a guy being smugly wrong.
I’ll repeat, you mustn’t be watching the games real well as he is stationed on the right side for the Cowboys.

The only time he has visited the left side would be when Morgan was in the side but them 2 have hardly ever played as a pairing. Any other player he goes back to the right side and always has done throughout his juniors and into FG.
 

slotmachine

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Damn Nathan Brown not playing the world beater that was Lamb

I guess it helps people sleep at night to pretend there is competition between the highly paid import and the good ole local boy on a pie and coke deal (or no deal at all in Crossland's case).

But the reality is when the club decides to offer someone like Watson or Clifford good money to come to Newcastle it's with a firm plan in mind, and unless Clifford's leg falls off over summer he'll be starting in the halves with Pearce in Round 1 2022 (or hopefully this year in the finals).
The real question is if he turns out like Watson who had his shot but wasn't up to it.

Been said a few times now but that long term planning is fairly obvious to me, in that they want a Brailey/Clifford/KP/Hodgson spine up and running for 2023. They will be 27/25/25/22 in 2023, so many years ahead to play together.
 

HarVeeGee13

Gavin Hanrahan
I’ll repeat, you mustn’t be watching the games real well as he is stationed on the right side for the Cowboys.

The only time he has visited the left side would be when Morgan was in the side but them 2 have hardly ever played as a pairing. Any other player he goes back to the right side and always has done throughout his juniors and into FG.
vs Dragons. Clifford predominantly left, Morgan right.

vs Panthers. Clifford on the left being overrun by Coen Hess, Morgan right.

vs Broncos round 20 last year, Clifford left, Drinks right.

vs Panthers round 19, Clifford left, Drinks right.

vs Storm rd 18. Clifford left, Drinks right.

Should I go on?
 

cowboyman

Andrew 'Joey' Johns
My mistake, a handful of games on the left...

I can cherry pick games too and would say go have a look at the highlights to round 7 2020:giggle:
 

HarVeeGee13

Gavin Hanrahan
My mistake, a handful of games on the left...

I can cherry pick games too and would say go have a look at the highlights to round 7 2020:giggle:
I mean either way all I said he’s been limited to playing down the left side channel “a lot”, touching the ball way less than he should, which doesn’t play to his strengths. You say he played more predominantly on the right side through juniors, QCup etc and then into grade - which I’m pretty sure isn’t true - but even if it was, all I said was he’s done it “a lot”. Does every game of first grade he’s played between round 7 2020 and round 2 2021 not count as “a lot”? Yeah I’m definitely cherry picking there by pointing at almost all of his first grade game time in the past year...

I’d ease up on the smugness if you’re gonna be this wildly off-base mate.
 

Ak-47

Gary Wurth
I believe halfbacks can play on both sides well when needed, and they should.
As long as he plays well for us and takes the opportunity when it comes. Like if your a half and see a chance for a 40/20 on the right are you going to stay on the left??
 
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