Every single person on the planet has bias about absolutely everything, I don't think anyone is arguing that?
NRL Round 14 - Storm V Knights - 2:00pm Sunday 9th June - AAMI Park, Melbourne
- Thread starter Lefty
- Start date
Les Misérables
Todd Bates
Sure. My point is that it manifests itself in the NRL the outcome of which is the Knights can go to Melb and get reliably robbed for 80 mins and there's no single thing that can or will be done about it.
Storm come to Newcastle and at best we will half the 50/50 calls. At best. Ordinarily, they pull up to Newy and we get robbed here too. That's not whingers bias that's just true Gouldy
I think we do the use of technology very well. The change to awarding the try and move on even while it is being checked works very well imo. Remember the try Aku was awarded against us after he moved to Manly and he dropped it about a foot off the ground? Refs boss backed the decision because the bunker couldn't get involved even though it was blatant. I'm glad we don't see that kind of thing any more.
Yep your bias is the one that’s 100% true, totally!
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Unconscious bias is definitely a thing and it’s very hard to be vigilant against it. The Roosters, Storm and Penrith are less likely to be called for ruck infringements because refs go into games unconsciously expecting them to dominate the ruck.
It can bite good teams on the butt too - to point to a clear example, Victor Radley being sin binned earlier in the year for what on replay was clearly not a hip drop tackle. You unconsciously expect him to have done something dirty at this point. I myself am guilty of it - I thought it was an appalling tackle even after seeing a couple of replays, until a couple more replays later I realised there kind of wasn’t actually anything wrong with the tackle.
But in general play, certain teams absolutely get away with more and get the benefit of more penalties than they deserve. Certain refs are worse for this favouritism than others. Last time I saw them, the win/loss differentials by team for Grant Atkins made me want to call for a formal investigation.
Just need to hope the Knights can have a sustained period of great play which leads them to getting a similar benefit of the doubt.
It can bite good teams on the butt too - to point to a clear example, Victor Radley being sin binned earlier in the year for what on replay was clearly not a hip drop tackle. You unconsciously expect him to have done something dirty at this point. I myself am guilty of it - I thought it was an appalling tackle even after seeing a couple of replays, until a couple more replays later I realised there kind of wasn’t actually anything wrong with the tackle.
But in general play, certain teams absolutely get away with more and get the benefit of more penalties than they deserve. Certain refs are worse for this favouritism than others. Last time I saw them, the win/loss differentials by team for Grant Atkins made me want to call for a formal investigation.
Just need to hope the Knights can have a sustained period of great play which leads them to getting a similar benefit of the doubt.
Les Misérables
Todd Bates
I've noticed this also.
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
I don't care on the 50/50's so much, you win some you lose some. And you find when you are winning and playing well, you find your team in better field position and not defending as much and the team with the ball doesn't give away many penalties. Which is why clubs struggling, seem to get hammered more.
I care about the blatant decisions they get wrong that you cannot fathom how this is the call. The No Try I mentioned earlier was a prime example. No Melbourne arm near it, yet no try.
I care about the blatant decisions they get wrong that you cannot fathom how this is the call. The No Try I mentioned earlier was a prime example. No Melbourne arm near it, yet no try.
Still_Nutty
Josh Smith
I can wear most 50/50 calls during the game, in the heat of battle and acknowledge that referees are only human....BUT what I hate is the referees profiling players and thus having pre-conceived ideas about how they may infringe during as game - that then means that, to satisfy their pre-conceptions, they proceed to intentionally focus on certain players and then feel like they have to justify/support their profiling through conscious and unconscious bias that isn't consistent with how they referee all other players on the field.
Phoenix Crossland is a clear 'victim' of this approach by many NRL referees and he was again clearly singled out by Gee on the weekend - from my watching of that passage of play, it was clear that Gee hyper-fixated on Crossland because he was anticipating some sort of indiscretion (based on his profiling) that then had to be fulfilled. In watching the footage we saw, it was clear that Gee was influenced by his profiling, more so than refereeing what was in front of him at the time and more broadly by only singling out certain players because of this preconception.
I would guarantee that in 30 or 40 other cases during that game, there were players doing the same or worse and from both sides BUT they did not attract the same scrutiny or the same result.
If you can take the time and listen to any Knights game in the coming weeks, focus on listening to how the referees directly speak to Phoenix EVERY TIME he is actively involved in a defensive play. Then look to do a comparison with others on the field from both sides during the course of the same game and listen to the way there seems to be much more passive language and less direct name calling of the players consistently used.
Bottom line, player profiling by referees has produced a more perverse approach by not just refereeing what is in front of them on face value but formally embedding unconscious bias into their approach and thought processes, which clearly then impacts on their capacity to referee the game impartially.
Phoenix Crossland is a clear 'victim' of this approach by many NRL referees and he was again clearly singled out by Gee on the weekend - from my watching of that passage of play, it was clear that Gee hyper-fixated on Crossland because he was anticipating some sort of indiscretion (based on his profiling) that then had to be fulfilled. In watching the footage we saw, it was clear that Gee was influenced by his profiling, more so than refereeing what was in front of him at the time and more broadly by only singling out certain players because of this preconception.
I would guarantee that in 30 or 40 other cases during that game, there were players doing the same or worse and from both sides BUT they did not attract the same scrutiny or the same result.
If you can take the time and listen to any Knights game in the coming weeks, focus on listening to how the referees directly speak to Phoenix EVERY TIME he is actively involved in a defensive play. Then look to do a comparison with others on the field from both sides during the course of the same game and listen to the way there seems to be much more passive language and less direct name calling of the players consistently used.
Bottom line, player profiling by referees has produced a more perverse approach by not just refereeing what is in front of them on face value but formally embedding unconscious bias into their approach and thought processes, which clearly then impacts on their capacity to referee the game impartially.
It was repeated a few times when both were struggling last year about 2/3 of the way through the season through Sydney media that "the nrl's dream gf is the roosters and rabbitohs". It annoyed me on two levels, 1) why does a sporting body state a preference like that and 2) what pressure does it place on the officiating?
He’s only just turned 20 and has always been highly rated, I’d hardly say we were sleeping on him. He’s also taken Armstrong’s spot after one good game in first grade.
Make that 2!!! It's always easy to sit on your lounge chair and criticise selectors but sometimes they get it painfully wrong. We always seem to be playing musical chairs with the same 17 players no matter how they perform. I must admit I am an unabashed Will Pryce fan, he is just TOO classy for the Reggies. PLEASE someone give him a go!!!
Billy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Sharpe needed to have that firstgrade pre-season and play some reserve grade before debuting.
He has a crazy try scoring record in Ball and Flegg - over a try a game for 2 seasons of Ball and 3 seasons of Flegg (played both grades in 2022 and 2023), but he was basically too small and weak to tackle anyone.
This week he made 11 tackles and missed 2 against a rampaging Penrith NRL side. I suspect he didn't make 11 tackles a year in Flegg before doing a firstgrade pre-season.
He has a crazy try scoring record in Ball and Flegg - over a try a game for 2 seasons of Ball and 3 seasons of Flegg (played both grades in 2022 and 2023), but he was basically too small and weak to tackle anyone.
This week he made 11 tackles and missed 2 against a rampaging Penrith NRL side. I suspect he didn't make 11 tackles a year in Flegg before doing a firstgrade pre-season.
MBQLD
Clint Newton
3) Who actually wants to see THAT grand final?
MBQLD
Clint Newton
So I didn’t have anywhere near as bad a reaction to the refereeing this week as I did last week but I have noticed the last few weeks that Phoenix gets called out A LOT.
I wear earphones so you actually hear heaps that gets missed on the TV or surround sound. (Lots of F’s and C’s at each other)
But yesterday again the ref was all over Crossland which seems to rattle him a bit as he goes charging out of the line and then you see him stop or stumble while the ref is screaming at him. It interrupts natural play. Last week there was a couple of times the ref was screaming at Crossland to get out of it, even though Crossland was on the opposite side of the referee and nowhere near the tackle!! literally 5-6 metres from the play the ball. That’s when you wonder if maybe there is some strange bias thing going on? 
I’ve heard Crossland speak a few times and he seems like a kind, gentle and intelligent dude which kind of goes against the Reed Mahoney type of narrative the officials seem to have of him.
You could hear the ref yelling his name last week when he was on the other side and the ref was looking in his direction. I can only guess the touch judge tells the ref and the ref screams it out? Or there is some weird referee urge to just yell out “Crossland!” at all times.So I didn’t have anywhere near as bad a reaction to the refereeing this week as I did last week but I have noticed the last few weeks that Phoenix gets called out A LOT.
I wear earphones so you actually hear heaps that gets missed on the TV or surround sound. (Lots of F’s and C’s at each other)
I’ve heard Crossland speak a few times and he seems like a kind, gentle and intelligent dude which kind of goes against the Reed Mahoney type of narrative the officials seem to have of him.
Hopefully he can sort out his timing in leaving the line over the bye week, I’m sure he wouldn’t be getting called out and giving away so many set restarts if there wasn’t some truth to it.
MBQLD
Clint Newton
Maybe you are right, but that doesn’t explain when the ref was watching the tackle being completed to his right on the Knights goal line and poor Phoenix was behind the ref to the left looking perplexed.
I should see if I can find it and screen shot and time stamp.
MBQLD
Clint Newton
I did rewatch that 20 minute period that I thought that was in and only once was it a bit suspect the calling out of Phoenix. But in each other time, 10+ times Crossland was actually out of the line. I feel like a fool
Hate admitting I might be wrong, (just ask my Mrs I’ve never been wrong once in 14 years) but you could say we went from being in front to struggling from behind off the back of Crossland being too eager out of the line and it’s cost us dearly.
Well spotted good sir
slotmachine
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Refs do video too, they've obviously seen Crossland consistently going early so are going to target him.