Kalyn Ponga discussion

Billy said:
The last 3 or 4 games have shown us how our current squad can be a top 4 side.
It is basically based on 17 players going as hard as they can with high energy and being as physical as possible in every contact.
Ponga doesn't play that style.
For me, the question is, how do we re-introduce Ponga with his skills based on elusive runs and skilful passing into a team that is winning by just going hard and fast and out competing sides physically.
I'm struggling to think how we can put him in without losing some of the physicality that is working for us now..
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Not sure I agree Billy. Do you think the Maroons side was not physical last year?
 
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I'm not feeling all the negative comments about Ponga. Sure we paid overs for him, but he is a class player and the best player in our team. IMO he will be the difference to take this side to another level if the team keeps performing as it's been. We also take into consideration he hasn't played alot of footy and in a new position. So we can't expect him to fire straight away. If he does great but may need some time.
 
I didn't say we shouldn't use Ponga.

I said I don't know how we can use him while maintaining the style that is working for us.

We can't go back to the old style, because it doesn't work, so we have to find a way to use Ponga in the high energy, physical style we now play, and I don't know how that looks?
 
Totally, I am looking forward to seeing it though. Gamble has been so good, it’s going to be a shame to see him miss out on a starting spot (unless we put him at lock).

But at times that speed and unpredictability would have been a really good thing for us last night. Hopefully Ponga brings that and I think it might just be the icing on top that makes us a really good team.
 
Well he's proven time and time again at origin level. Mind you at F/B. So I can't see why he won't in far improved Knights side.
 
Yeah I don’t want to disrespect Gamble and Miller who’ve both been great this year, but there were times where we had opportunities out wide and Ponga - with that extra yard or so to get on the outside of his man and compound a numbers advantage, with his quicker hands, with his ability to fire a pass which is so perfect it could cut through rain without getting wet - just gives us that little bit extra which creates a try, instead of an almost-try which the sliding defence *just* covers.

The big thing is that we also need to keep a lot of the depth we’ve been playing with in terms of how we bring the centres onto the ball. But I don’t think they’d stop and I don’t think in my heart of hearts that Kalyn *wants* to play in a team where literally everything in attack goes through him and everyone else stands around. Jacko’s cut out to Bradman to beat the up and in defence will still be there I think though and should be even more effective when the player he’s cutting out is KP rather than Gamble.
 
Could Ponga defend at 5/8 and roam as a lock. Gamble defend at lock and attack in the halves. I just don’t know how else you would use him.
 
Billy said:
The last 3 or 4 games have shown us how our current squad can be a top 4 side.
It is basically based on 17 players going as hard as they can with high energy and being as physical as possible in every contact.
Ponga doesn't play that style.
For me, the question is, how do we re-introduce Ponga with his skills based on elusive runs and skilful passing into a team that is winning by just going hard and fast and out competing sides physically.
I'm struggling to think how we can put him in without losing some of the physicality that is working for us now.
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I still can't see it.
 
Ponga ain’t right, lost at 6, play him 1, we pay him too much to be on bench and he is to talented to leave out.
You cannot play Gamble, Mann and Crossland in 17 with two on the bench. Given what we’ve got its Miller or Gamble to Cup
 
Frank McWilliams said:
Ponga ain’t right, lost at 6, play him 1, we pay him too much to be on bench and he is to talented to leave out.
You cannot play Gamble, Mann and Crossland in 17 with two on the bench. Given what we’ve got its Miller or Gamble to Cup
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Talented where? Talents stand up, KP has looked like a passenger for a few years now. We hear about freak at training, I'm yet too see it on the field consistently like anyone earning his cheque.
 
Billy said:
The last 3 or 4 games have shown us how our current squad can be a top 4 side.
It is basically based on 17 players going as hard as they can with high energy and being as physical as possible in every contact.
Ponga doesn't play that style.
For me, the question is, how do we re-introduce Ponga with his skills based on elusive runs and skilful passing into a team that is winning by just going hard and fast and out competing sides physically.
I'm struggling to think how we can put him in without losing some of the physicality that is working for us now.
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I missed this at the time, but spot on Billy.
 
I’m not gonna defend KP’s performance, it was obviously bad, but why would Ponga coming back into the team also mean the guys who play inside him massively drop their levels? Does he emit some sort of enervating pheromone? I mean within the last 5 years we’ve literally seen a team win a grand final carrying a guy with a broken bone in his shoulder, so KP’s defensive issues being the cause of the horrendous inability of the middle to get off their line & control the ruck, as people seems to think is the case, that makes no sense.

Go look at some of Matt Moylan’s defensive efforts this year. Should Cronulla move him to 14 as well?

Watching live, it was not a good night in attack points-wise, but for my money the reasons were 1. We came up against a far more desperate side prepared to win 8-6 if that’s what it took, so we never got on the front foot and created space or got many shots at a retreating/fatigued defence, and 2. Not having a genuine hooker is absolutely killing us. I do think Kurt has been good there previously but he absolutely did not look fit at any stage let alone after allegedly suffering an injury. Everything is just that little bit slower and more cumbersome, and there are massive issues in yardage. It all starts with not having Brailey out there.
 
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Ponga takes so much of our cap we don't really much back, and going by this forum we

can't even find him a suitable position, is he a 6 or 1,or,,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 or10, and with his concussion issues

there's another problem and at moment the team looks disjointed.
concussion-hit.gif
 
I wonder if we have enough time to turn KP into someone who can defend competently at 6. KP has been the best player in every team he's been in since the moment he stepped on the footy field, he's one of 3-4 (can't recall which off the top of my head) kids to get selected in the Australian u15s merit side while being an u14s player - he has always been the superstar, and he has always been the superstar at fullback. Even though he has the skills and talent that could translate to being a wonderful 5/8 there comes a defensive problem when you consider the lack of tackling experience the kid has had at fullback. If you could somehow put up a lifetime tackle/tackle attempt counter above each player in the NRL across their entire Rugby League/Union career I would wager KP comes in at the very bottom, playing fullback in both codes for 95%+ of his entire Rugby career means he is literally years of experience behind pretty much everyone else in the league. If you were to shift that tackle counter to reflect tackles made defending in the front line - Ponga's number would without doubt be down the bottom.

Personally I have never really been supportive of the move to 6, other than generally speaking it appears easier to get another good fullback than it does a 6 so it would help with the overall strength of our side. Watching some of his games in Origin at fullback (especially game 3 last year) to me suggests his attacking inefficiencies at fullback for the Knights are more a product of his excess responsibilities in our team environment than they are his own natural level of performance. I don't think many people would watch back that Game 3 in particular and go "ah yeah this bloke would be better used at 6".

In any case, even if we were completely convinced that Ponga's talents are best utilised at 6 do we have the time to close that gap in terms of lack of defensive experience and bring him up to a level of competence that withstands full seasons in the front line at the elite level? Furthermore do we have the time to do so in a way that allows the strengths of his attacking game to remain unaffected by the consistent targeting that he is now going to see moving forward?

I don't envy the position of AOB here, he's dealing with some extreme tests of sunk cost fallacy IMO and ones that have been further stretched with the emergence of Miller/Gamble as imperfect yet genuine alternatives that further muddy the waters around what is best for the team in the short and long term.
 
So why has the team as a whole performed worse since KP's return? I see good teams "carry" a player that's new to the team or a position, until he's settled.

I could use the roosters as an example, but they have dropped Sam walker!
 
I would be trying to trade young for a first grade standard Hooker Turpin would do play ponga on wing can swap throughout game with miller and wouldn’t affect interchange if he gets his confidence back I would revert him back to fullback and miller on wing
 
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