Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Yeah, its the wild west out there.
Sack Adam O’Brien
- Thread starter HarVeeGee13
- Start date
Yeah, its the wild west out there.
MullosLefttoRight
Andrew Tangata-Toa
Spot on in the first two paragraphs and our ability to force repeat sets has been rather disastrous this season, with our injury toll we don't have the ability to stay in the game going end to end all day, we need to camp down there to release pressure on the defence. The turnaround between a 7 tackle set from a kick dead or caught in goal and a repeat set has a massive impact on total team fatigue.
Our halves stats for forced dropouts are as follows: (Forced Dropouts/Games in halves/Kicks Dead/Kick Errors) - all from Foxsports lab
Clune - 4/7/1/2, Clifford - 1/8/3/4, Crossland - 1/1/0/0
There's plenty wrong with our attack that can be pinned on AOB but poor kicking from the halves is an execution issue that is down to their individual performance, we knew what we were getting into with Clifford, he can put in some brilliant kicks but he has never had any control over them. The link below is random analysis from early 2021 that explores kicking errors in the NRL, the article demonstrates that at that time Clifford had the 5th worst % of kicks resulting in errors of all halves in the NRL, this has been a feature of his game that no coach has been able to fix - he had a good run of form last season where he landed more correctly but the errors never left.
Is Jack Wighton the least accurate general play kicker in the NRL? - NRL Round 7 2021 stats and trends - The Rugby League Eye Test
During the Raiders loss to the Cowboys on the weekend, Canberra five eighth and Dally M medal winner Jack Wighton did something he seems to do far more often than any other player in the NRL – kick a ball out on the full. Andrew Voss mentioned it on commentary on Fox League as well, bringing up...
www.rugbyleagueeyetest.com
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Forgot Josh King
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
How much are we giving any leeway for injuries for OB?
I get squad depth is lacking and next man up culture is the go in the NRL. But when the next man up is not NRL ready it can be difficult. Some of that is OB's fault but I don't think he gets THE say on recruitment, he likely gets input but not the deciding nod.
Lets face it the squad he walked in to here was already a shambles and any coach that came in was going to take time to build something here.
We currently have 11 players out at the moment from a squad of 27 I believe we have signed at the moment. Out of those 11 6 are solid first graders and that is 7 if you count Fitz. Which is shaky but he can come on and do an adequate job, not going to be the deciding factor but he can contribute.
The next team below us has 8 injuries and there are squads running around with 1 injury ffs.
The top 4 being Penthers, Storm, Cows and Souths have:
Penrith: 2
Storm: 4
Cows: 1
Souths: 5
We nearly have equal the injuries as the top 4 combined.
I am critical of our attack, the way he uses Ponga, and the overall motivation of the squad to compete. But how much of a difference can a coach make with 11 players out and very little depth to bring players in that can be relied on to do a job for you?
Our attack did look much improved the first few games.
I get squad depth is lacking and next man up culture is the go in the NRL. But when the next man up is not NRL ready it can be difficult. Some of that is OB's fault but I don't think he gets THE say on recruitment, he likely gets input but not the deciding nod.
Lets face it the squad he walked in to here was already a shambles and any coach that came in was going to take time to build something here.
We currently have 11 players out at the moment from a squad of 27 I believe we have signed at the moment. Out of those 11 6 are solid first graders and that is 7 if you count Fitz. Which is shaky but he can come on and do an adequate job, not going to be the deciding factor but he can contribute.
The next team below us has 8 injuries and there are squads running around with 1 injury ffs.
The top 4 being Penthers, Storm, Cows and Souths have:
Penrith: 2
Storm: 4
Cows: 1
Souths: 5
We nearly have equal the injuries as the top 4 combined.
I am critical of our attack, the way he uses Ponga, and the overall motivation of the squad to compete. But how much of a difference can a coach make with 11 players out and very little depth to bring players in that can be relied on to do a job for you?
Our attack did look much improved the first few games.
Joshhh
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Every coach would do a great job if they had their top 17 on the field every game, Obi would probably get coach of the year. Likewise I imagine most coaches would struggle with our injury toll. But we have to continue on with forward planning regardless and figure out what next year looks like and the year after that. There's a few key indicators that are putting his tenure into question at the moment, despite the injuries. Some of those you have already mentioned in your post.
Wagyu Patty
Timana Tahu
Round 1 Team/last week's team:
Ponga
Young (Lee)
Gagai (Sasagi)
Best
Tuala
Clifford
Clune
Klemmer
Randall
J Saifiti (D Saifiti - returned from injury)
Fitzgibbon (Jones)
Frizell
Mann (Sue)
Crossland
Barnett (J Saifiti)
Thompson
Momoisea (Johns)
Out of the starting 17 that beat the Roosters in Round 1, we were missing 5 first grade players, 6 if you include Brailey.
Our injury list maybe 11 or so players but only 4 or 5 of those 11 are actually first graders.
Compare this with Penrith missing their best winger and their starting front-rower,
South Sydney missing Milne and Latrell who are both in their best backline, as well as Host and Nicholls who are starting forwards for Souths.
Storm are missing their starting winger in Jennings, 2 of their starting front-rowers in Welch and Kamakamica and a good part of their depth with Moeroa and Eisenhuth.
Of our injury list and their ability compared to who is currently playing there's not a huge gap in quality IMO, and injuries aren't an excuse.
IMO:
Brailey > Randall
Barnett > Momoisea/Johns
Fitzgibbon = Jones
Hodgson - reserve grade and shouldn't get near firsts if everyone is fit
Young = Lee
Gagai > Sasagi (Duh)
Hunt - good in past years but depth now and shouldn't be in our starting 17
Sue < Thompson
I realise this post may be confusing but the point I'm trying to make is I just don't think the injury excuse carries much weight bar the losses of Gagai and Brailey
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
We had a good run near the end of last year and while we won more games, also got towelled up by Melbourne and a very depleted Easts. I don’t think he’d get coach of the year, I think the good teams would still beat us and I back us to blow some games against teams lower on the table too.
dont feel your giving fitzy enough credit in your post. better defender/decision maker than jones and a geniune threat playing short at the line. well in front of jones for mine.
Wagyu Patty
Timana Tahu
One trick pony though with poor ball handling. Bar that stellar first season he had he's been a non-threat since. Admittedly Jones hasn't been either which is why I have them as equals, just my opinion
MontyBrogan
Brett Grogan
I think calling for this is premature. We're coming off 2 straight years of making the finals - if we stay in and around 16th come season end, then it's a fair discussion.
This is a borderline top 8 roster in terms of talent, and injuries and a tough early draw have played a part in us underperforming that talent to date, but we need more of a sample size before calling for Adzy's head IMO.
Sure, we'd all like to be performing better, but I think a lot are underestimating how tough of a coaching job it is to get the attack rolling when 3/4 of your spine consist of probably the worst 9 in the comp, an average at best 7 playing on one leg, and Clifford, whose mind is... somewhere else.
The way we came out and played the first 3 rounds, and Ponga choosing the resign tell me that he hasn't lost the dressing room. I'd love to know what changed after round 3 (is it really the Barnett thing?), but I think AOB deserves more time. It's worse to constantly chop and change coaches and support staffs at the first sign of trouble than to hold on a bit too long on the wrong guy. I still hope Adzy isn't the wrong guy.
This is a borderline top 8 roster in terms of talent, and injuries and a tough early draw have played a part in us underperforming that talent to date, but we need more of a sample size before calling for Adzy's head IMO.
Sure, we'd all like to be performing better, but I think a lot are underestimating how tough of a coaching job it is to get the attack rolling when 3/4 of your spine consist of probably the worst 9 in the comp, an average at best 7 playing on one leg, and Clifford, whose mind is... somewhere else.
The way we came out and played the first 3 rounds, and Ponga choosing the resign tell me that he hasn't lost the dressing room. I'd love to know what changed after round 3 (is it really the Barnett thing?), but I think AOB deserves more time. It's worse to constantly chop and change coaches and support staffs at the first sign of trouble than to hold on a bit too long on the wrong guy. I still hope Adzy isn't the wrong guy.
danknights
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
How many line breaks did Fitz get in those early games. He got in the clear a few times iirc. Much better line runner, which in turn creates more space for the guys outside. Fitz > Jones.
Exactly what I've been thinking ... I look at the sides we've been naming the last few weeks, and the players out injured, and we're really not terribly badly affected. I don't think injuries are an excuse at all right now. I mean the squad is pretty terrible and has zero depth, but that's not down to injuries.
Yeah do agree Fitzgibbon looked like he'd taken his game up a level before he went down injured. And that's from a total anti-Fitz h8tr haha. Although a few other players looked the goods in rounds 1-3 and they've all been shocking ever since, so who knows if he'd have maintained it.
Wagyu Patty
Timana Tahu
Yeah Clune was another one who looked fantastic across the trials and in the opening rounds, granted he seems to be playing busted at the moment but his passing across the face of the defenders and digging into the line seem to have vanished, as well as his short kicking and running game.
I honestly had Clune earmarked early for someone who could be our best bargain in a number of years but he needs to turn things around quick before its too late.
It will be interesting to see how we improve with guys like Fitzgibbon, Barnett and the like returning and how accurate some people's opinions and views are on here.
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
I recall Ponga pre season saying they have stealed themselves for the first 6 weeks.
Started weeks 1-3 well until Barny send off. And in that week 3 game we held our own against the Panthers only in the dying stages scoring some tries to make it look bad.
Then sharks was that horrid windy day and OB told them to stop the expansive game due to the conditions.
Sea Eagles the week after being told to just play dire footy and couldn't switch it back on again.
Saints we were in it but caught them on the upswing in form away down at WIN stadium, just got pipped at the post really.
Parra next up really the most disapointing effort I think for the year no doubt cost them a lot of confidence.
Melbourne red hot and we were ice cold gave us that result.
4 out of the first 6 rounds we were in the contests with a shot at winning. Then Parra and Storm dropped the ball big time.
I know we are last, and I know we haven't looked good these past few weeks. But a couple of things go our way in a few games and we are two more wins up the ladder.
A bit premature I think to be calling for his head. Cows next up, then some less challenging games and we can see if we can build some form and see where we are at.
Started weeks 1-3 well until Barny send off. And in that week 3 game we held our own against the Panthers only in the dying stages scoring some tries to make it look bad.
Then sharks was that horrid windy day and OB told them to stop the expansive game due to the conditions.
Sea Eagles the week after being told to just play dire footy and couldn't switch it back on again.
Saints we were in it but caught them on the upswing in form away down at WIN stadium, just got pipped at the post really.
Parra next up really the most disapointing effort I think for the year no doubt cost them a lot of confidence.
Melbourne red hot and we were ice cold gave us that result.
4 out of the first 6 rounds we were in the contests with a shot at winning. Then Parra and Storm dropped the ball big time.
I know we are last, and I know we haven't looked good these past few weeks. But a couple of things go our way in a few games and we are two more wins up the ladder.
A bit premature I think to be calling for his head. Cows next up, then some less challenging games and we can see if we can build some form and see where we are at.
Shows how much I've blanked from my mind already, totally forgot about the Cronulla wind.
Still have a huge question mark over AOB's coaching from that game, we were travelling so well and he basically told us to throw all that out the window because of a bit of wind?
krustykraz
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
If we lose the next 2 (especially to the dogs) I think the writing is on the wall for Obi.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong and for them to miraculously turn it around, for the weird attack structures to click all of a sudden and make us all look stupid. It’s just so hard to figure out what they’re even *trying* to do and I don’t think the players are being set up to succeed at the moment.
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
A lot of wind but yeah that was a mistake. He is a rookie not used to making those calls himself.