Sione - I Don't see the big fuss?

L

Left Foot

Banned
Hey fellas! Thought I'd finally join up to get opinions on teenage sensation Sione Mata'utia.
Every week on the Knights Facebook page I read comments on how Sione should play fullback over Gidley. IMO we have looked a lot better with Gidley in the one.
Am I missing something with Sione? I know he's young and playing out of position but I am yet to see anything amazing from him that screams superstar. Usually young gun players show at least something to make you stand up and take notice. Fullback is also one of those positions where you get more space to show what you got. I don't know? Am I expecting too much too soon?
I know he made all the rep teams but I'm little disappointed so far.
 
Welcome to the forum!!!

I have to say I totally agree with you as I haven't seen anything spectacular from him yet.

I know he is young and will take time but I don't understand playing him out of position just to make the squad.

He needs more time in nsw cup playing his preferred position.
 
Billy Slater who'd have a rough idea said it took him 5 years to get the hang of playing fullback so I believe it's far too harsh judging him on what we're seeing in the 1 jumper. Have a think about the 4 Nations final where despite playing busted after standing his ground against the beast he still manged to win Australia the game if only the ref's eyes weren't painted on.
 
Beaumont said:
Billy Slater who'd have a rough idea said it took him 5 years to get the hang of playing fullback so I believe it's far too harsh judging him on what we're seeing in the 1 jumper. Have a think about the 4 Nations final where despite playing busted after standing his ground against the beast he still manged to win Australia the game if only the ref's eyes weren't painted on.
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I'm not marking his mistakes at the back because all rookies have mistakes in them. I just expected a bit more from him with football in hand. From the NYC games, he was quite dangerous close to the line but he has tried to barge his way through a few times in first grade but he doesn't look like getting through at all.
 
I watched maybe half of his junior games, either live or on the net, and the only time he played fullback was one game for Australia at under 16s level I think and a few games in NYC just before he made firstgrade.
The fact that he can play fullback in firstgrade at 18 years old with virtually no experience in the position is actually a bit of a miracle.

No other player i've ever heard of could do that.

In fact, the only guy with a similar experience was a guy named Joey Johns. His first game of firstgrade when he was in his teens he somehow convinced the coach he could play fullback off the bench - and he says it was the worst he has ever played.

In 10 years time we will be telling people we saw Sione play his first game of firstgrade as a fullback having never really played there before and run over 200 metres as an 18 year old kid, and people will think we are making it up.
 
Sione isn't a fullback. Pure and simple. He barely played a game there before making first grade.

He's a natural centre and his work there is what got him all the praise he received as a junior. He hasn't been able to play there in first grade yet and show what he really offers in his natural position.

He was picked for Australia on the basis of his work on the wing for us and praise he'd gotten from people like Bennett based on his maturity and junior years as a centre. I think him getting picked for Australia so early and getting all that hype sort of leads people to think we should be seeing this flashy superstar and we've never seen anything from Sione at any stage in his career to suggest that he's that type of player.

If anyone is expecting any freakish efforts from him based on speed or a step or something you're not going to get it. He's not that sort of player. I read a description of Sione the other day that I thought was pretty spot on - he doesn't look like a superstar himself but he'll make the player next to him look like one.

I couldn't find much footage of him in the juniors but his game here at centre highlights that point pretty well. He might not look flashy himself but his work certainly helps make Mamo look like a world beater.

[video=youtube;VDEXoanRBms]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDEXoanRBms[/video]

That of course is at centre. I don't really know how anyone could look at his work at fullback and think he'd be a better option than Kurt at the moment though. Gagai's decision will be a bit of a catch-22. I want him to stay but at the same time I don't think we'll really see much from Sione until he can play at centre.
 
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Billy said:
I watched maybe half of his junior games, either live or on the net, and the only time he played fullback was one game for Australia at under 16s level I think and a few games in NYC just before he made firstgrade.
The fact that he can play fullback in firstgrade at 18 years old with virtually no experience in the position is actually a bit of a miracle.

No other player i've ever heard of could do that.

In fact, the only guy with a similar experience was a guy named Joey Johns. His first game of firstgrade when he was in his teens he somehow convinced the coach he could play fullback off the bench - and he says it was the worst he has ever played.

In 10 years time we will be telling people we saw Sione play his first game of firstgrade as a fullback having never really played there before and run over 200 metres as an 18 year old kid, and people will think we are making it up.
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I don't think that is any kind of miracle to be honest. Sione got chosen to play fullback but I don't think he's been playing well there. Running 200m as fullback is the norm these days. RTS ran over 300m last week.
 
Welcome Left Foot... I'm with you, Sione is great but Gidley is better at this stage imo.
 
He is a try scoring freak.
He doesn't just set up tries.
In his first year of under 16s, as a 14 year old, he topped the try scoring for any side in the regular season. If he hadn't been suspended, we would have won the grandfinal.
In his second year of Under 16s he missed most of the season with injury, but came back for the finals and scored something like 7 tries in 3 or 4 games, including a hat trick in the grandfinal.
I can't remember how he went in Ball - mostly injured from memory.
As soon as he turned 17 he started playing NYC and immediately started scoring tries at around a try a game.
In his second year of NYC he was well on track to be our highest tryscorer, but as soon as he turned 18 he went up to firstgrade, where he scored 7 tries from 7 games.

He hasn't scored this year and I have no doubt this is the longest tryscoring drought of his life. His whole career he has scored at better than a try a game, usually against guys 2 or 3 years older than him.

- - - Updated - - -

Mullen made firstgrade at 19 - even playing beside Johns it took him a year to look up to it.
Tahu made firstgrade at 18. It was about 2 years before he stopped dropping the ball every time Gidley passed it even a little bit away from his chest, and even on his chest he was likely to spill it.
Anthony Quinn was 18 - took about 3 years to look at home.
Roberts was 19 - still doesn't look special.
Josh Perry was 18. He took a few years to look like he belonged.
Gidley played 1 game of firstgrade at 19 - worst individual game i've ever seen - dropped every ball and missed every tackle.

None of them played for Australia at 18 - none of them looked at home in firstgrade at 18 - none of them reached their potential at 18.
They all looked like rookie kids.

Sione doesn't look like a rookie kid. He looks like a firstgrader with a few mistakes in his game.
 
I think Sione has a ways to go before he reaches his potential... He plays really well - for an 18 year old rookie.
 
I agree he's more of a centre or winger... For me, the big thing with Sione is his feet or leg speed at the line. He nearly always pokes his head through, and if you go high on him he'll have you going backwards with good leg drive. He just looks a classy player.
 
I think one of the biggest thing we are not seeing from him at the moment is involvement in backline plays. BUT we are playing with 2 fullbacks and three hockers rotated each game and during the game. Does not breed stability, of consistency from anyone in our spine.
Just thinking about it, it shows how frigging good gidley is in, via he is thriving this year
 
He needs to go back to NSW Cup. Not because he looks out of place or not up to it. It's because he needs to be playing 80 minutes a week & the fact that we can't afford to carry him and Randall on the bench.

Send him back there for the next month in the centres and if he's playing out of skin then Stone might have to make a tough decision. But at the moment with him getting less than half a game aswell as being out of his preferred position it's not beneficial for him or the team.
 
Defender1 said:
I agree he's more of a centre or winger... For me, the big thing with Sione is his feet or leg speed at the line. He nearly always pokes his head through, and if you go high on him he'll have you going backwards with good leg drive. He just looks a classy player.
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Yeah he's a bit of a gun with his hitups and I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned much on here. He really does fight hard in every tackle and nearly always manages to play the ball quickly.
 
Billy said:
He is a try scoring freak.
He doesn't just set up tries.
In his first year of under 16s, as a 14 year old, he topped the try scoring for any side in the regular season. If he hadn't been suspended, we would have won the grandfinal.
In his second year of Under 16s he missed most of the season with injury, but came back for the finals and scored something like 7 tries in 3 or 4 games, including a hat trick in the grandfinal.
I can't remember how he went in Ball - mostly injured from memory.
As soon as he turned 17 he started playing NYC and immediately started scoring tries at around a try a game.
In his second year of NYC he was well on track to be our highest tryscorer, but as soon as he turned 18 he went up to firstgrade, where he scored 7 tries from 7 games.

He hasn't scored this year and I have no doubt this is the longest tryscoring drought of his life. His whole career he has scored at better than a try a game, usually against guys 2 or 3 years older than him.

- - - Updated - - -

Mullen made firstgrade at 19 - even playing beside Johns it took him a year to look up to it.
Tahu made firstgrade at 18. It was about 2 years before he stopped dropping the ball every time Gidley passed it even a little bit away from his chest, and even on his chest he was likely to spill it.
Anthony Quinn was 18 - took about 3 years to look at home.
Roberts was 19 - still doesn't look special.
Josh Perry was 18. He took a few years to look like he belonged.
Gidley played 1 game of firstgrade at 19 - worst individual game i've ever seen - dropped every ball and missed every tackle.

None of them played for Australia at 18 - none of them looked at home in firstgrade at 18 - none of them reached their potential at 18.
They all looked like rookie kids.

Sione doesn't look like a rookie kid. He looks like a firstgrader with a few mistakes in his game.
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Mullo was just over 18 when he debuted in 2005 and just over 20 in Origin in 2007.

Very young as well and copped too much criticism when he wasn't a superstar right away which people expected when he was picked for rep honours too early.

I really hope people give Sione more time to find his feet than they gave Mullen before the criticism starts.

Mullen had Sione's confidence when he first came onto the scene too...I really hope it's not beat out of Sione like it was him...
 
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I would be happy with Sione on the bench, but with him going to centre and Gagai playing fullback, but that really shouldn't happen in terms of stability in our team. Also we could possibly have a greater chance of keeping Gagai with a fullback position guaranteed.

Gags is much better on his feet, but is nowhere near as classy as Sione is, he really looks effortless when he plays.

Stone needs to make his mind up and stick with a stable spine, an injury would really make the selection process a million times easier.
 
Joel said:
I would be happy with Sione on the bench, but with him going to centre and Gagai playing fullback, but that really shouldn't happen in terms of stability in our team. Also we could possibly have a greater chance of keeping Gagai with a fullback position guaranteed.

Gags is much better on his feet, but is nowhere near as classy as Sione is, he really looks effortless when he plays.

Stone needs to make his mind up and stick with a stable spine, an injury would really make the selection process a million times easier.
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If we have to keep Sione on the bench I even think a better option than what we're doing now would be to bring him on at centre and let Gagai play as a running 5/8 for 20-30 minutes while Roberts goes to hooker.

Ideally Sione wouldn't be on the bench at all but if it has to happen I think that would be the better option as Sione isn't a fullback and Roberts is much stronger at hooker than Gidley. When I first heard of the Sione on the bench plan I was only originally for it because I assumed Roberts would be the one to go to hooker anyway. Gidley needs to stay at fullback for the whole game I think. He's our best fullback and he hurts the side too much everywhere else.
 
Billy said:
He is a try scoring freak.
He doesn't just set up tries.
In his first year of under 16s, as a 14 year old, he topped the try scoring for any side in the regular season. If he hadn't been suspended, we would have won the grandfinal.
In his second year of Under 16s he missed most of the season with injury, but came back for the finals and scored something like 7 tries in 3 or 4 games, including a hat trick in the grandfinal.
I can't remember how he went in Ball - mostly injured from memory.
As soon as he turned 17 he started playing NYC and immediately started scoring tries at around a try a game.
In his second year of NYC he was well on track to be our highest tryscorer, but as soon as he turned 18 he went up to firstgrade, where he scored 7 tries from 7 games.

He hasn't scored this year and I have no doubt this is the longest tryscoring drought of his life. His whole career he has scored at better than a try a game, usually against guys 2 or 3 years older than him.

- - - Updated - - -

Mullen made firstgrade at 19 - even playing beside Johns it took him a year to look up to it.
Tahu made firstgrade at 18. It was about 2 years before he stopped dropping the ball every time Gidley passed it even a little bit away from his chest, and even on his chest he was likely to spill it.
Anthony Quinn was 18 - took about 3 years to look at home.
Roberts was 19 - still doesn't look special.
Josh Perry was 18. He took a few years to look like he belonged.
Gidley played 1 game of firstgrade at 19 - worst individual game i've ever seen - dropped every ball and missed every tackle.

None of them played for Australia at 18 - none of them looked at home in firstgrade at 18 - none of them reached their potential at 18.
They all looked like rookie kids.

Sione doesn't look like a rookie kid. He looks like a firstgrader with a few mistakes in his game.
Click to expand...

Are we expecting something that he's not?
I remember watching Hayne, Folau, Inglis, and Lawerence as 18 year olds and thought wow these kids are going to be stars. In Lawerence case his career has been wrecked by injury and probably poor coaching.
I just don't see it in Sione. Maybe after reading all the hype I was bound to be disappointed.
 
I suspect he still has a lot of growing which will help, even inglis was a skinny lanky kid when he started, full time gym over the years will bulk him up, siones legs are still quite skinny and he still manages to break tackles with his sheer determination. I just think stone needs to let him apply his trade in nsw cup till required
 
Kurt Gidley spent years as a fullback in the juniors.
Despite that, it took him at least half a season to look comfortable at fullback in the seniors. His positioning in defense was very ordinary, and he was a nightmare under the high ball at first.
Gidley copped it on the forums for months as he learnt to play fullback in firstgrade, with many people declaring he would never be a fullback.
Fair enough. He was much, much worse than an 18 year old who has never played the position on a regular basis, despite already having years of firstgrade experience and years of playing fullback as a junior.
No one is an instant firstgrade standard fullback.
Anyone who says Hayne was perfect from day one obviously doesn't remember the many times he was moved from fullback and the long periods of poor form he had in the early years. His whole second season was a write off.
Inglis and Folau both came into a champion side and were well managed by a very good coach, but they both had poor games in their early times.
People only remember their highlights reel. They weren't perfect from day one.
Sione has had 12 games of firstgrade, and his first 12 are as good as anyone's in the game. He has definately had the best first 12 games of firstgrade of anyone who has ever played for the Knights - and did I mention he debuted the week after he turned 18.
The Sione haters are a strange bunch.
I would be excited about his potential if he had played 1 game of firstgrade and made 20 rookie errors as an 18 year old.
I know I was a big fan of Kurt Gidley, and it took him about 5 years and 100 or so firstgrade games to get to where Sione is now.
 
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