Sack Adam O’Brien
- Thread starter HarVeeGee13
- Start date
Matty James
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Point being that setting the bar at 12th for the coach is pretty ridiculous after having exceeded expectations the previous season being seven places higher.
I don’t think 12th is “reasonable” KPI personally. Of course most wouldn’t bank on us being as successful as Penrith or Melbourne, but we’re going to continue being a basket case if that’s the expectations of us a club, especially of those within those four walls at HQ.
I doubt it personally, once we're out of the running for the finals we almost alway give up. When missing the finals we last won our final game in 2014, and before that 2007 ... and we've missed the finals most years.
I was just going down the Murphy’s law pathway.
I wasn’t actually confident of the wins, those confident times were sucked out of me a long time ago
Frank McWilliams
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
It all depends on who you play, if last X amount of games are against top 8;sides and you have finished 9+ then the likelyhood of winning is reduced, your flat, done, season over and coach is trying new combinations for next season it’s all relevant, giving up?
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Along these lines I posted a while back that over OB's tenure as coach, he has enjoyed comparatively soft NRL draws where we are ranked high up in the list of teams with the easiest draws playing last years top 4 etc the least amount of times.
And yet, still have struggled to have any impact and make the 8 with any momentum in to the finals.
Next year, if OB is still around which is the most likely outcome, I shudder to think where we would finish if we ranked for one of the most difficult draws. Bottom 4 I am betting.
OB needs to go.
Les Misérables
Mark Hughes
He needed to go 2 or 3 years ago. His first season with us was the exposè of his coaching.
We were immediately better defensively. Immediately. And that's what impressed most people. But it was just as evident that our attack went backwards, we all of a sudden forgot how to unlock Ponga the way Brown managed to easily do. Everyone made the assumption that we had new systems and the attack would click soon enough. And it never happened.
Its been 5 years of the most asinine and boring attacking footy in the clubs history, save for 11 games last year where we gave the ball to our world class centre/wing pairings and let them cook.
We're not a serious club. If we were we wouldn't have persisted with 5 years of an average rookie coach. It's unconscionably wasteful.
In reality we have looked fairly inept since AOB arrived, except for the run last year when Ponga was on fire, with the team not displaying any sort of game plan or cohesion in the playing group. I doubt there is a coach in less demand than AOB so you have to wonder why they raced to extend his tenure and at the same time let Ron Griffiths slip through our grasp. I'm not suggesting Ron as a coach for the mens team but the guy did a fantastic job that is going to be difficult to replicate this year. The only short term solution I see is to give McDermott a go and see what happens as there are no proven coaches available. I assume Christian Wolf is locked in at the Dolphins and other than him I don't see too many prospects out there.
Defence wins games
Todd Bates
What a “performance indicator” joke!
Defence wins games
Todd Bates
I agree with a lot of what you have said here, but how do you explain Bellamy taking reserve graders and turning them into almost supermen?
Look at Melbourne’s roster and outside their “big 4”, Bellamy has got the best out of ordinary players for other clubs, or up and coming young players.
No doubt you'll have some reason this is wrong, but here's the number of tries we scored with Ponga at the club during Brown and AOB's seasons in charge:
2018, Brown, 24 games: 73 tries
2019, Brown (and Woolf for a couple), 24 games: 79 tries
2020, AOB, 21 games: 78 tries
2021, AOB, 25 games: 80 tries
2022, AOB, 24 games: 70 tries
2023, AOB, 26 games, 121 tries
2024, AOB, 21 games, 65 tries
Looking at 2020 and 2021 compared to 2018 and 2019 our attack really didn't change much at all. I'm not saying it has been great under AOB, but it was far from good under Brown either.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
A couple things. First of all, I think Bellamy is the best coach I’ve ever seen, and yes obviously Morris falls short of that standard. If Bellamy was available for the Knights I would burn down the COE to get him.
Secondly, there is a bit more to the improvement he (and the Melbourne system as a whole) gets out of players than just “he takes reserve graders and turns them into great players”. It’s more like, he takes guys who have a lot of talent or just good traits (eg good character) but who haven’t quite figured it out for whatever reason, and gets the best out of them.
He (and his staff) are very good at identifying rough diamond players and at this point you can pick the ones who’ll pan out there if you’ve been paying attention. I can’t be bothered going back but I’m pretty sure I said Eli Katoa would become one of the best back rowers in the comp there and was filthy that we didn’t make a swap for him a condition of Mitch Barnett leaving. That’s come to pass but I wasn’t the only one who picked it. Blore coming good there was obvious too. Anyone betting against Utoikamanu going from impactful but maddeningly inconsistent to one of the best middles in the comp once he’s there needs their head examined.
They also tend not to look at guys and go, “no he’s too small” or “too old” or poke holes in them like I myself have admittedly been guilty of. No one wanted Pappy or that young fella who’s their backup 1 now who has also looked really good. Hughes and Hynes had bounced around a bunch of systems and it wasn’t panning out. Now, part of this is that they don’t actually have a pathways system, not for very young players, so there are no noses to put out of joint when they keep refilling their talent coffers with journeyman and castoffs. But they know what they’re doing.
The value guys/no names who are do a job for them, I don’t wanna talk them down, nor downplay the work Bellamy does with them (he’s not the only guy with a stars & scrubs lineup). But, it’s not that he’s turned Grant Anderson and Trent Loiero into superstars. It’s that he’s found a way to give them a role which contributes to the team winning - usually a very simple and unglamorous one - and gets total buy in. Josh King had already started coming good here but he definitely really thrives there as the primary tacklebot out of their middles. They succeed because the key players do their job so well - the spine and their main strike weapons - but also the key players do their job better because the less heralded guys do their job.
You take the stars out and it doesn’t work, but I don’t think he’d be befuddled about how to centralise Ponga in the game plan + also get the best out of the team as a whole as AOB has.
Newygirl
Adam Woolnough
The Ron Griffiths treatment is probably the thing that has pissed me off the most and that’s from a very long list.
I was hopeful that one day down the track, he would be the men’s coach but given what @danknights said about the Knights being happy to let him go, I can’t see that happening in the future unfortunately. Not unless there are some major changes at the top.
frankLauda
Matthew Gidley
I’m going to jump in here on Les’s behalf!
I feel Brown built the squad up from the wooden spoon shimozal it was. AOB inherited that team which I think on paper was a good roster. We had KP and Mitch Peace in the side. So it’s a given that results should be better.But the problem is he has failed to take us to that next level and that is what everyone on this forum wants.
AOB is just not that guy. In the time AOB has been coach, coaches like Flanagan, Hasler come to mind have gone to other clubs.
Yeah I don't necessarily disagree with that, I just think Brown was absolutely crap as our coach lol. If he'd been able to get our attack firing (or our defence) he'd probably still have a job.I’m going to jump in here on Les’s behalf!
But the problem is he has failed to take us to that next level and that is what everyone on this forum wants.
AOB is just not that guy. In the time AOB has been coach, coaches like Flanagan, Hasler come to mind have gone to other clubs.
Still_Nutty
Josh Smith
Yeah - It almost seems as though Ron was 'showing up' the 'A(oB) Team' too much by his ability and results over back to back seasons, which also seems to have made the front office boys nervous as well due to their perseverance with mediocrity at the coaching and playing level.
Could you image Melbourne going..."OK, back to back premierships Craig, we think its about time for a change in the coaching structure of this very successful set up?!"
If Griffith had genuine aspirations of stepping away from the NRLW to clearly pursue an opportunity as an NRL head coach, I could sort of get that....although I'd still, as a club, be thinking...'the one shining light in this club that is wracked by so many problems at an NRL level - let's hold onto this, keep the group together and ride it's success for as long as we can!!'
The stuff coming out of the change rooms now and disharmony across other operational aspects of the club tells me we are almost back to pre-Brownie days?!
frankLauda
Matthew Gidley
Yes I’m completely aware with Brown. That’s why he got the tag for the “re-building” coach. At the end of the day we took a gamble on a long-term assistant coach in good systems and it has not worked out. It’s disappointing he has another 3 years as I feel it could be more of the same.
Kurriboy
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
To me thats an even more damning stat against OB, because the Brown years we truly had an awful roster and righlty took out the spoon.
When OB took over the roster was improving and the team also.
Yet he still couldnt manage improvement in attack.
Thieves Like Us
Daniel Abraham
But but but he was the attack coach for teams that won 4 GFs!