Kalyn Ponga discussion

I think here is the best place to put this, but it is basically a Holbrook AND Ponga point. Last year early on it really felt like the game plan in attack was give it to KP in that hybrid position and cross your fingers.

The cowboys game there were so many good signs. KP was most definitely getting in to his sweet spots. Massive tick. Twice early though he got in to attacking kick positions with Sharpe as the target. But there was so much intent on both those occasions. Drinkwater was manipulated both times to meet our needs, rather then just hoping it worked. First time the ball was moved right before coming back to the left for Ponga to grubber directly for Sharpe. Drinkwater had no chance of getting back and Burns saved the cowboys with some great wing play. The second kick was the chip bomb that left Drinkwater unable to compete in the jump with Sharpe's momentum. Positive intent to do things on our terms in two kicks!! Amazing!

Then the two tries to start the second half. The first one was soooo good, highlighting our intent to offload first up. After the Friz offload, I thought Crossland's decision to bypass KP and go straight to Smith was really key. A great bit of eyes up play between Smith and Ponga then was beautiful to watch. The next one then is so interesting.to me from the point of view that it showed why KP isn't that effective in the middle of park but still worked. The previous play was aimed to be a sweep to left with Ponga in his spot out Smith. I really like what Smith did here. The play didn't open up as hoped and Sandon showed patience and poise to recognise that and hold on to the ball. Ponga then runs around the ruck to first receiver. He then breaks the cardinal rule and heads across field at half pace. He isn't trying to skip a defender to create an extra man, he is seemingly waiting for a mistake. I think why it works here is he goes early to Brown. I really don't know how we stripped them for numbers on that play on a narrow field and the ball from Gags to Young was superb, but maybe that one said more about the cowboys then it does us.

We finished with the only try that didn't involve KP with Smith kicking for Young, hopefully something else that is on the coach's tip sheet every week.

I was really heartened by the apparent attacking game plan we saw on Sunday.
 
Owey said:
I think here is the best place to put this, but it is basically a Holbrook AND Ponga point. Last year early on it really felt like the game plan in attack was give it to KP in that hybrid position and cross your fingers.

The cowboys game there were so many good signs. KP was most definitely getting in to his sweet spots. Massive tick. Twice early though he got in to attacking kick positions with Sharpe as the target. But there was so much intent on both those occasions. Drinkwater was manipulated both times to meet our needs, rather then just hoping it worked. First time the ball was moved right before coming back to the left for Ponga to grubber directly for Sharpe. Drinkwater had no chance of getting back and Burns saved the cowboys with some great wing play. The second kick was the chip bomb that left Drinkwater unable to compete in the jump with Sharpe's momentum. Positive intent to do things on our terms in two kicks!! Amazing!

Then the two tries to start the second half. The first one was soooo good, highlighting our intent to offload first up. After the Friz offload, I thought Crossland's decision to bypass KP and go straight to Smith was really key. A great bit of eyes up play between Smith and Ponga then was beautiful to watch. The next one then is so interesting.to me from the point of view that it showed why KP isn't that effective in the middle of park but still worked. The previous play was aimed to be a sweep to left with Ponga in his spot out Smith. I really like what Smith did here. The play didn't open up as hoped and Sandon showed patience and poise to recognise that and hold on to the ball. Ponga then runs around the ruck to first receiver. He then breaks the cardinal rule and heads across field at half pace. He isn't trying to skip a defender to create an extra man, he is seemingly waiting for a mistake. I think why it works here is he goes early to Brown. I really don't know how we stripped them for numbers on that play on a narrow field and the ball from Gags to Young was superb, but maybe that one said more about the cowboys then it does us.

We finished with the only try that didn't involve KP with Smith kicking for Young, hopefully something else that is on the coach's tip sheet every week.

I was really heartened by the apparent attacking game plan we saw on Sunday.
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Great post mate. Sorry in advance for the novella everyone:

Definitely fun for the forum that the game basically showcased both sides of the Sharpe/Smith civil war. Sharpe at 6 gives Kalyn and Dylan this incredibly dynamic attacking weapon to use in what's basically a hybrid (drink) fullback & five-eighth role. In yardage his involvements looked a lot like Teddy's or Dylan Edwards and he definitely helped us get rolling a lot early on. He's so good at picking his moments to get into dummy half. And then yeah on both kicks Kalyn & Dylan are essentially aiming for him with the second one being a Jack & Jill play with Bradman contesting the kick looking for Fletch on the bat back. In the chaos around a kick contest, Fletcher is always going to be deadly.

OTOH Fletch did throw one very shocking pass where even his intent wasn't that clear IMO, and I didn't see a lot to change my mind about my concerns about his feel & lack of deception on the first layer with the ball. But at least it looked like they were playing with an intent to give him those reps with Kalyn playing outside him more often than not. He's not going to get better at it if he doesn't get them. The thing to watch there is whether his running game is still as effective against better defences who might load up on him more knowing he's probably not likely to deceive them about his intentions. But yeah if you're a believer that the good massively outweighs the improvement areas, Fletch def made a case for that.

But yeah then with Smith in Sharpe's spot on that edge, obviously does not bring the same level of game breaking weapon Fletch is, he's not outleaping anyone for a kick any time soon. But that judgement you talk about, was on display in key moments, and I have no doubt that edge will get better ball with Sandon there unless Fletch comes a long way very quickly. Also thought more than once when we sort of lost our compass in a yardage set and Sandon had to step up and kick, he showed a lot of poise and game sense, with us in the lead, in just dinking it into a space between defenders so we'd be able to get a dominant tackle in tackle 1 of the next set.

Gonna defend Kalyn on the way he engages the line for try #4 a bit, I thought it was a bit more of a good example of a change of pace than a half pace play. Last year it felt like he'd just go near the line, float laterally and... what is that supposed to achieve? I'm not about to say he's Nathan Cleary, but this time he shows under twice to Croker & Friz (one of them probably should make a better show of actually being a receiver, but I digress), before he *quickly* straightens, shows short to Pasami (who runs a beautiful hard line) and plays out the back to Dylan. Whole play is definitely an example of a "microsleep" as AOB would term it because Cotter (surprisingly) doesn't chase hard out of marker at all, which is why much maligned defensive idiot Drinkwater comes up into the line to give them an extra number, but everything is definitely a hair too late. The thing is though that a lot of these little opportunities pop up in most games because of how much #fatigue is in the game now, most teams have players clocking off like this a lot, which is why all but three teams averaged over 20PPG conceded and all but three over 20PPG scored last season, and we just never take advantage of them.

What I like is how deep the shape is outside Kalyn, what absolutely killed me under AOB was how he always wanted us to execute pretty high margin of error set plays flat and fast in the face of a lot of defensive pressure, who did he think he had in the halves, Thurston? Whereas Holbrook with better halves talent has us setting up with a bit more thinking time and more opportunity to pull the plug and reset if we don't like what we're seeing. What it felt like to me, and I think you see it, is that our boys are spotting that the Cows have clocked off a bit and are locking into place in response. They are moving at half pace, you're right, but once they see that the defence is flat footed & shoulders are turned in, it feels like they're locking into an opportunity. I always felt like AOB is convinced that the "what" of what the team is doing in attack will create the try, whereas - to me anyway - I feel like I saw signs that our boys have been in the video room learning a better feel for the "when" and "why", if that makes sense?


TLDR: I agree with Owey in an irritating amount of detail that it looked like a team with a much clearer game plan and idea of what they're looking for in attack.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
What I like is how deep the shape is outside Kalyn, what absolutely killed me under AOB was how he always wanted us to execute pretty high margin of error set plays flat and fast in the face of a lot of defensive pressure, who did he think he had in the halves, Thurston? Whereas Holbrook with better halves talent has us setting up with a bit more thinking time and more opportunity to pull the plug and reset if we don't like what we're seeing. What it felt like to me, and I think you see it, is that our boys are spotting that the Cows have clocked off a bit and are locking into place in response. They are moving at half pace, you're right, but once they see that the defence is flat footed & shoulders are turned in, it feels like they're locking into an opportunity. I always felt like AOB is convinced that the "what" of what the team is doing in attack will create the try, whereas - to me anyway - I feel like I saw signs that our boys have been in the video room learning a better feel for the "when" and "why", if that makes sense?
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100% this. I thought it was very noticeable, and extremely encouraging.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
TLDR: I agree with Owey in an irritating amount of detail that it looked like a team with a much clearer game plan and idea of what they're looking for in attack.
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Great post mate, agree 100%.

It seems as though AOB or at least the Knights historically have had muddled or overcomplicated plans for a while. I can see why players like Josh King have said their roles are much simpler at their new clubs.

Sandon's vision for the Best try was lovely, can see 9 times out of 10 that ball just getting sent wide and potentially breaking down but for Crossland to bypass KP initially to get to Smith and then back inside... Got a bit of touch footy vibes out of it, I know they both played at a high level.
 
Yeah part of why I thought Sandon would be a really good get for us is that he has that touch footy background like Kalyn. I know the Roosters had a mixed season last year but I thought a lot of what he did in their ball movement sequences was really slick and I imagined a lot of very sexy linkage (no homo) between him, Kalyn and DylBro.

His Achilles heel at the Chooks was a bit of a classic problem some guys who've played a lot of Cup have when they step up, a lot of things which look like an easy opportunity one level down really aren't in the NRL, which led to him throwing a few intercepts, playing a bit too loose and risky. Very controlled on Sunday though and the job gets a lot easier when you're essentially the third fiddle playmaker despite potentially wearing #7 against Manly. And also Kalyn is the type of weapon where the "things which look like opportunities in Cup aren't in the NRL" thing reverses - things which are only half chances with other fullbacks are massive opportunities when you're passing to Kalyn.
 
Game one last year was the Tigers and at no stage did I feel confident in how we played. We won that one but only just. Game two I think, I thought we looked good against the Phins at home. Kayln did play on the ball, first receiver both sides.

In hindsight think it was more the Phins were very flat that game and also the second time we played them. They did a lot of travel in a short period of time from memory. So playing them gave us false hope.

I have more optimism the start of this year after yes just one round. But I think the Cows turned up to play, but we were a better side with a better game plan excuted well.

Goes to show the freak KP is not having much of a pre-season just stepping in and doing what he does. But yes I will keep my judgement in check for the first few rounds, as this is the Knights.
 
Yeah there's a lot of reason to believe the mindset will be different.

Remember last season when we had that bad early loss to the Titans, AOB said something about the problem being that we "weren't patient enough" and "he thought we tried to play too much like the Titans", paraphrasing? Like, suggesting it would be bad if we went the length of the field off the back of an offload and a bit of broken field play? When we have Bradman Best, Kalyn Ponga, Fletcher Sharpe in our team? The thing we shouldn't under any circumstances try to do is blow the game wide open with a big attacking play? Really? You're gonna try and grind them down in yardage starting Brodie Jones and Mat Croker at prop? Okay.

Then on Sunday we compete for kicks whenever there's a good opportunity, we throw twice as many offloads as the opposition and throw about 20 more passes despite having less of the ball, fewer sets, and losing the yardage/post contact metres battle. It's a very different approach.

Remember last year how every issue with the attack could be handwaved away by AOB with the excuse of this or that prop not playing, therefore no go forward, no quick play the balls? Well, our two slickest tries (ie the non kick tries) happened while Mooney and J Saf were off the field; the middles we had on were Friz, Crokes and Saulo. We created opportunities with skill & the willingness to take a few risks with ball movement, not by bashing the front door down.

They have to keep it up and the fearlessness, the eyes up footy, the effort in support, these have to be the rule, not a one off. But there's at least optimism that that's what this coach wants, that if we do fall behind by 18 this team will play like we believe they can chase it down. I would be very surprised if the structure handcuffs are back on for round 2. Absolutely no doubt in my mind that we will have games where it looks very rough, like it would not shock me if round 7/round 8 vs Roosters & Panthers back to back are a couple of difficult watches, getting smashed in one game then strangled in the next.

The optimism that I feel is that we have a head coach who wants this roster to play to its strengths. That's really all I was ever asking for. Besides all the other things I routinely ask for.
 
Round 4 against the dogs will be the first real litmus test, as I feel they will be a top 4 defensive side. If we can break them down then we are a chance against Penrith.
 
KriKri said:
Great post mate, agree 100%.

It seems as though AOB or at least the Knights historically have had muddled or overcomplicated plans for a while. I can see why players like Josh King have said their roles are much simpler at their new clubs.

Sandon's vision for the Best try was lovely, can see 9 times out of 10 that ball just getting sent wide and potentially breaking down but for Crossland to bypass KP initially to get to Smith and then back inside... Got a bit of touch footy vibes out of it, I know they both played at a high level.
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Crossy in particular seems to have improved out of sight. Probably a ridiculous thing to say after one game, but that was up there with his best games at 9 in a Knights jersey
 
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