Dane Gagai Re-Signs with Knights until 2017

[Insomniac]

I've never bought into to the "imported players are mercenarys that don't try as much as the locals" argument.

Gagai might have come to the club for Wayne (and he'll probably leave for Wayne) but he's never ever put in less than 110% for the club while he's been there. Likewise someone like Scott. Always gives his all for the team. So does Korbin.

We've also had a lot of local players they don't put in the effort and have felt that they're entitled to a contract and a lot of money just because they're locals.

What about the Mata'utias? They're local juniors and signed with another club and have said that they'll only back out of it if the Knights put together what they want money wise. I want the boys to stay (well Sione - I don't mind with the other two either way) but this has certainly raised questions about their true loyalty to the club.

To me I just want guys in the side that always give their all. I dont care where they come from.

 

[Billy]

Lol @ Pat will put in the extra effort to win us titles.
Not sure if you are being serious here.

Pat was the player who lifted most to win us the under 18s national title a few years ago. He was one of the best players all year, and I'd say the best in the finals series. In one game our forwards were being outclassed, and Pat went from fullback to play 20 minutes in the forwards to get us back in the game.

 

[manager]

Pat was the player who lifted most to win us the under 18s national title a few years ago. He was one of the best players all year, and I'd say the best in the finals series. In one game our forwards were being outclassed, and Pat went from fullback to play 20 minutes in the forwards to get us back in the game.

Read what you wrote you again.
You're saying Gagai might help us make it to the finals but he'll never help us win grand finals because all he is playing for is money!
However, Pat is a local junior and he will help us win Grand Finals!

 

[Billy]

I've never bought into to the "imported players are mercenarys that don't try as much as the locals" argument.

Gagai might have come to the club for Wayne but he's never ever put in less than 110% for the club while he's been there. Likewise someone like Scott. Always gives his all for the team. So does Korbin.

We've also had a lot of local players they don't put in the effort and have felt that they're entitled to a contract and a lot of money just because they're locals.

What about the Mata'utias? They're local juniors and signed with another club and have said that they'll only back out of it if the Knights put together what they want money wise. I want the boys to stay (well Sione - I don't mind with the other two either way) but this has certainly raised questions about their true loyalty to the club.

To me I just want guys in the side that always give their all. I dont care where they come from.

We won a title in 1997 with largely local players against all odds.
We won a title in 2001 with largely local players against all odds.
In both grandfinals we came up against sides full of highly paid star players who were supposed to easily beat us, and the spirit of our local players got us home.
In 2001 Billy Peden played the game of his life.
In 1997 Andrew Johns booked himself out of hospital to put in a match winning performance.

Guys playing for money can get you a long way, but to win titles you need guys playing for more than money.

 

[manager]

Yeah Inglis, Sammy Burgess were all Souths local juniors last season as well.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

I may get fried by this but just giving my opinion.
I honestly don't see Jake Mamo making it as a winger, yes he has speed but if you look at the top wingers in todays game they're all either tall or big and strong. Which Mamo is neither.
The only way i can see Mamo making it is a FB and in a Slater type roll, otherwise out on the wing i think he'll get beaten 1 on 1 and under the high ball.
And taking into consideration that Gidley will retire, if we sign Sione for FB then Mamo is going to be waiting a long time, however if Gagai or BJ were to leave and Mamo was our main FB thats the only way i see it can work out for him.

I don't either, I see forfilling a Mantellato type role, great lower grader and handy fill in but not someone who will play a lot of first grade.

All clubs have and need them.

 

[Billy]

Read what you wrote you again.
You're saying Gagai might help us make it to the finals but he'll never help us win grand finals because all he is playing for is money!
However, Pat is a local junior and he will help us win Grand Finals!

You read it again without the blinkers on.
It is a general principal that the squad should be as local as possible and good value for money if we want to win a title.
If we get a good deal on Gagai and can't get a good deal on the Mataútia's, we should go that way.
If the Mataútia's are good value for money, that would be even better.
If we are going to pay big money for a mercenary, i'd want it spent on a really good halfback, or a position we have trouble filling, not on a back, where we seem to have about 4 more than we can use.

 

[manager]

You read it again without the blinkers on.
It is a general principal that the squad should be as local as possible and good value for money if we want to win a title.
If we get a good deal on Gagai and can't get a good deal on the Mataútia's, we should go that way.
If the Mataútia's are good value for money, that would be even better.
If we are going to pay big money for a mercenary, i'd want it spent on a really good halfback, or a position we have trouble filling, not on a back, where we seem to have about 4 more than we can use.

What general principal is that? The one that you pull out of your ***?

Where did Inglis, Burgess bros and Ben Teo all come from?
Were they local South juniors?

 

[Billy]

Yeah Inglis, Sammy Burgess were all Souths local juniors last season as well.

Every now and then someone does buy a premiership, but a lot of other people spend a fortune trying and never get near it.
Tinkler tried.
How did that work out?

 

[Insomniac]

We won a title in 1997 with largely local players against all odds.
We won a title in 2001 with largely local players against all odds.
In both grandfinals we came up against sides full of highly paid star players who were supposed to easily beat us, and the spirit of our local players got us home.
In 2001 Billy Peden played the game of his life.
In 1997 Andrew Johns booked himself out of hospital to put in a match winning performance.

Guys playing for money can get you a long way, but to win titles you need guys playing for more than money.

We won those titles because we had the best player that's ever laced up a boot in our squad...and coincidentally most people think Ben Kennedy should have won the CC medal in 2001. An import.

Just because a bloke might not come from Newcastle doesn't mean he doesn't have heart and won't give his all.

Look at the clubs that have managed to win premierships and make GFs in the past few years. Not many juniors there.

We have a lot of juniors in our squad at the moment which is nice to see, but the club would be extremely stupid if they told blokes like Gagai or BJ to walk to accomodate someone like Pat who's unproven just because he's a junior (one that was happy to go off to the Dogs before the Knights offered significant money).

 

[Billy]

What general principal is that? The one that you pull out of your ***?

Where did Inglis, Burgess bros and Ben Teo all come from?
Were they local South juniors?

I call it the Brian Smith principal.
Mercenaries get you to grandfinals, but you don't win them.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at the clubs that have managed to win premierships and make GFs in the past few years. Not many juniors there.

That's not true at all.
Melbourne is the big exception.
They have something else going on.
But when teams from areas that have a strong junior base, like Saint Gerorge, Brisbane, Parra, Canterbury etc win a title, they do it with largely squads playing for more than money - and Newcastle does too.
Tinkler couldn't buy a title, because it isn't all about money.

 

[member 2299]

Why do so many threads end up as a personal battle guys?

 

[Billy]

We have a lot of juniors in our squad at the moment which is nice to see, but the club would be extremely stupid if they told blokes like Gagai or BJ to walk to accomodate someone like Pat who's unproven just because he's a junior (one that was happy to go off to the Dogs before the Knights offered significant money).

Try taking some comprehension lessons.

I clearly said we need to look at putting together a squad that is good value for money.

I clearly didn't say we should buy a squad of locals who are being paid overs.

I clearly said we should prefer locals if the value is there, because that is how we have won titles.

 

[manager]

I call it the Brian Smith principal.
Mercenaries get you to grandfinals, but you don't win them.

LOL you got no bloddy idea.

I will name you 3 players from every premiership winning side from the last five years that weren't local juniors.

2014: Inglis, Burgess Bros, Teo

2013: Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings, Waerea Hargreaves

2012: Billy Slater, Cameron Smith, Cooper Cronk

2011: Daly Cherry Evans, Jamie Lyon, Brett Stewart

2010: Darius Boyd, Jamie Soward, Jeremy Smith

 

[Insomniac]

I call it the Brian Smith principal.
Mercenaries get you to grandfinals, but you don't win them.

- - - Updated - - -

That's not true at all.
Melbourne is the big exception.
They have something else going on.
But when teams from areas that have a strong junior base, like Saint Gerorge, Brisbane, Parra, Canterbury etc win a title, they do it with largely squads playing for more than money - and Newcastle does too.
Tinkler couldn't buy a title, because it isn't all about money.

You're joking aren't you? I'll give you Brisbane but the quality of the juniors they had at the club in 2006 like Lockyer and that were of course going to get the job done. The Dragons two best players in the year they won it were both imports. The Bulldogs pretty much have zero developed local juniors in their side anymore. Souths won a comp on the back of Inglis and the Burgess brothers, the Roosters on the back of a forward pack that weren't locals.

Tinkler couldn't buy a title, but he also couldn't get the quality to Newcastle that the Sydney clubs can. And FTR that squad that Tinkler and Bennett tried to buy got us much closer to a title than we had in over 10 years.

The boys busted their gut on the weekend. They won that game on the back of grit, spirit and determination. When everything was going against them they didn't pack it in. They kept turning up set after set in defence and changed their own luck. To me that's the sort of spirit you can start building a premiership squad around regardless of where they come from.

- - - Updated - - -

Try taking some comprehension lessons.

I clearly said we need to look at putting together a squad that is good value for money.

I clearly didn't say we should buy a squad of locals who are being paid overs.

I clearly said we should prefer locals if the value is there, because that is how we have won titles.

Apologies if I misunderstood that part. My point though was in relation to your last line. We were discussing Pat in relation to Gagai in terms of who would be better value. They're both going to get offered more than they're worth - probably Pat more so because they want to keep Sione.

 

[slotmachine]

Back on topic, it would much easier to discuss this subject if we knew how much every player was earning, like the American sports.

I don't think it's a good idea to have Sione on 450k playing centre, while Uate is on 500k, Jimmy Mac 250k+ and BJ on ???
Not to mention if Gagai makes the QLD side he'd want a Sione type deal, and Chanel wants 200k, Mamo something similar and Pat 100k or whatever.

You're talking a third of the cap on the back five plus fill ins.

 

[Billy]

LOL you got no bloddy idea.

I will name you 3 players from every premiership winning side from the last five years that weren't local juniors.

2014: Inglis, Burgess Bros, Teo

2013: Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings, Waerea Hargreaves

2012: Billy Slater, Cameron Smith, Cooper Cronk

2011: Daly Cherry Evans, Jamie Lyon, Brett Stewart

2010: Darius Boyd, Jamie Soward, Jeremy Smith

Most of those titles were not won by the few mercenaries doing what they were paid to do, but by the local guy in jersey 17 playing the game of his life for much more than money.
All teams have imported players, but the more local you can get in there, the more spirit you'll have in the big games.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

With any other organisation that people are members of, why on earth do members not know how the organisation is spending their money. Player salaries should be public.

 

[manager]

Most of those titles were not won by the few mercenaries doing what they were paid to do, but by the local guy in jersey 17 playing the game of his life for much more than money.
All teams have imported players, but the more local you can get in there, the more spirit you'll have in the big games.

OMG not sure if you are serious.

SO that player in jersey 17 is PAT am I correct? LOL

 

[Insomniac]

Back on topic, it would much easier to discuss this subject if we knew how much every player was earning, like the American sports.

I don't think it's a good idea to have Sione on 450k playing centre, while Uate is on 500k, Jimmy Mac 250k+ and BJ on ???
Not to mention if Gagai makes the QLD side he'd want a Sione type deal, and Chanel wants 200k, Mamo something similar and Pat 100k or whatever.

You're talking a third of the cap on the back five plus fill ins.

If they were all to stay then Gids would absolutely need to go. I actually think he's the best fullback at the club at the moment but he's not value for money when he never gets on the field and we already have a surplus of backs at the club that can fill the position.