Adam O'Brien discussion

It really, really sticks out that there is a drastic, and I mean DRASTIC, difference in how the team plays stylistically, not just in terms of results, when Brown & Ponga are both available.

We had these weird long periods of adjustment when Ponga went out or came back into the side under AOB, where sometimes we'd arguably actually play better without him, and that absolutely just reads as trying to cram him into a box or force stuff which wasn't the best way to use him now doesn't it?

Like there is a real impact not just on how good attacking execution is, but how effectively the team gets down the field in the first place, when Dylan & Kalyn are playing. The speed and confidence of the ball movement from within our own half and the constant use of the threat of the gun players to force the opposition to play with a wide defensive line. Makes the game so much easier for the guys who take the hard carries.

If AOB is still coach I guarantee he's still obsessed with "earning the right" via taking way too many one out runs into gang tackles.

Game plan is built around the two guys making the big bucks for some crazy reason...
 
The general skill level the team is showing in ball play and offloads and support play is what is surprising me.

I was of the mind that I hoped Brown would improve our attack and resemble 2023/24 seasons. But I wasn't big and hadn't been for many years, very high on the teams general skillset.

one offseason to see the team unleash ball playing and general skills has truly surprised me.

Crokes form, Hunt attacking game even after mistakes, successful tap back from high kicks. That's al from coaches working on upping the teams skills on the ball.

That's been the biggest clincher for me that Obi did run a heavy ship that reduced risk taking.
 
We've seen Ponga play this role before, around 2022 or 2023 something clicked for him where he realised he's got to own this team and become the main cog in it. He started playing this almost hybrid halfback-fullback first receiver role at different times back then and looked really good doing it.

I know there's been a lot of arguments that he would be better utilised as a traditional fullback floating around being set up by other players but I've always thought he looks most dangerous when he's constantly on the ball.

This year it finally feels as though the coach has built an all inclusive game plan around that where players are encouraged. O'Brien let Ponga be Ponga, but he was pretty much the only player he gave a long leash, it's like he thought Ponga is the star, let him do all the flashy stuff while everyone else will just do the toily hard work to get him in a position. It sounds good in theory, but maybe that would have worked better 10 or 15 years ago.
 
Joshhh said:
We've seen Ponga play this role before, around 2022 or 2023 something clicked for him where he realised he's got to own this team and become the main cog in it. He started playing this almost hybrid halfback-fullback first receiver role at different times back then and looked really good doing it.

I know there's been a lot of arguments that he would be better utilised as a traditional fullback floating around being set up by other players but I've always thought he looks most dangerous when he's constantly on the ball.

This year it finally feels as though the coach has built an all inclusive game plan around that where players are encouraged. O'Brien let Ponga be Ponga, but he was pretty much the only player he gave a long leash, it's like he thought Ponga is the star, let him do all the flashy stuff while everyone else will just do the toily hard work to get him in a position. It sounds good in theory, but maybe that would have worked better 10 or 15 years ago.
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The interesting thing about this is that prior to this season, there was an inverse relationship between how often he touched the ball and how effective he seemed to be.

Eg 2023 was his lowest season for receipts per game since his first year for us in 2018 - basically, team functioning well, and he was an elite elite play finisher off the back of well-functioning structure. Hastings 7 for most of the season and he had hands on the ball a lot, right up there with the most of any half in the game.

This season is on track to be Kalyn's highest receipts per game of his career and it's career best form, and while every team has structures & processes, this season it feels very pared back and streamlined. I think with how notable the difference is once he comes back into the team he is inarguably doing a lot to steer us around from the back but still his "heat map" for a game would likely show him getting it in a lot of fullback-like positions. I think there's a lot of him calling to be brought onto the ball rather than a dominant 7 organising everything and making the call to get it to him, if that makes sense. "Organising fullback" rather than "hybrid half".

It sounds simple and obvious but Holbrook's #1 principle is to get your best spine players on the ball testing defenders as much as possible. I think AOB's notion was always that everyone else sets things up for the spine guys to put on the play which creates the try (this is why, I think, he wants his halves throwing a zillion short balls to back rowers, the trigger he chases relentlessly is an opposition edge forward trapped at marker... okay Adam but then the other team knows that's the one thing you're trying to do). I think Holbrook sees it as, if you just keep pressuring defenders with pace and footwork, they will crack, they will make mistakes. The specific "play" doesn't create the try, the ability of his gun players does it. If Ponga or Brown or whoever doesn't get clean through they'll probably still win quick play the balls or penalties.
 
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Billy made a good point. When we first signed him on I feel he did improve the team, we made the finals for the first time in long time his first year. Very average 22.
23 went on the run, which brought him time which was fair enough.

We all had high hopes 24 and come crashing back to earth. The club should have let him go then, and was too nice. Not only for us but for AOB’s benefit as well.

Anyway I can honestly feel good things coming, and I don’t think this a flash in a pan. The stars are aligning.
 
frankLauda said:
Billy made a good point. When we first signed him on I feel he did improve the team, we made the finals for the first time in long time his first year. Very average 22.
23 went on the run, which brought him time which was fair enough.

We all had high hopes 24 and come crashing back to earth. The club should have let him go then, and was too nice. Not only for us but for AOB’s benefit as well.

Anyway I can honestly feel good things coming, and I don’t think this a flash in a pan. The stars are aligning.
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24 we still played finals. We were the better side up in North Queensland in the final but didn't get any luck. I can understand the club sticking with Aob at that point. But I agree, I think good, sustainable things are coming.
 
Seano said:
Can't imagine that KP re-signs if AOB is still coaching the Knights as contracted in 2026.
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No chance of re-signing. That's what was most frustrating is that the board somehow couldn't see how much damage they were doing to the club by persisting with AOB.

They mightn't have sacked him if we hadnt won the spoon. If we'd finished the year with a full roster and landed 12th or something, they'd probably have rolled into 26' with him.

The spoon likely rescued the club.
 
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Treadly said:
DB was taking early tackle hitups vs saints in out end, and early in the game. I actually like it. Spreads the load, and he is scary elusive, like ponga but not as flashy or dynamic in his movements.
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I am really enjoying Dylan Brown taking the ball deep into the defence. We look so dangerous with this strategy and brings more of our players, including forwards, over the advantage line.
 
Interesting how the podcast guys compared coaches with their experience, to whether they’ve played or not.

It was a fair point to say sometimes guys serving a lengthy apprenticeship as an assistant or coaching reserves doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a head coach in waiting, it just means they’ve just hung around long enough to be considered for a head coaching role because they’ve learned under good coaches.

AOB obviously a good example. Seibold another, as much as he is a top bloke, sadly Rick Stone was another. Compare him to assistant counterpart Fitzgibbon, a former player who’s had more success.

Holbrook seems to be a blend of both, former player/halves who knows the game well. There are other good examples of players who didn’t make much of a dent but knew the game well, Webster, going back Brian Smith etc.

Then there are guys who had high profile careers hitting it off like Benji and Foran, Ricky Stuart one of those in the NRL era anyway who has been a successful player and coach. Cleary obviously a handy player, not quite Ricky.
Hopefully Foran doesn’t end up like Fittler where he’s chewed up and spat out after the honeymoon phase is over either.

Makes what direction the Dragons go in pretty interesting as well.
 
R_A said:
Interesting how the podcast guys compared coaches with their experience, to whether they’ve played or not.

It was a fair point to say sometimes guys serving a lengthy apprenticeship as an assistant or coaching reserves doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a head coach in waiting, it just means they’ve just hung around long enough to be considered for a head coaching role because they’ve learned under good coaches.

AOB obviously a good example. Seibold another, as much as he is a top bloke, sadly Rick Stone was another. Compare him to assistant counterpart Fitzgibbon, a former player who’s had more success.

Holbrook seems to be a blend of both, former player/halves who knows the game well. There are other good examples of players who didn’t make much of a dent but knew the game well, Webster, going back Brian Smith etc.

Then there are guys who had high profile careers hitting it off like Benji and Foran, Ricky Stuart one of those in the NRL era anyway who has been a successful player and coach. Cleary obviously a handy player, not quite Ricky.
Hopefully Foran doesn’t end up like Fittler where he’s chewed up and spat out after the honeymoon phase is over either.

Makes what direction the Dragons go in pretty interesting as well.
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Bellamy and Bennett a couple of very successful coaches who didn’t have amazing careers (although Bennett did play a few games for Aus, I think?).

I think it’s pretty random, but playing at the top level in some capacity is definitely an advantage. Can’t think of any super successful coaches, or even premiership winning coaches, who didn’t have at least some top-line experience.
 
Yeah Bellamy admitted he was never the best or the most talented player always a hard worker who was dogged by injuries. I was trying to think of who in the modern game was kinda an average player who also had injuries but kinda hung around, but has a high ceiling potential as a coach, maybe Ciraldo? Lol, just with less games. Had the size but also seemed to be a smart dude who took a real interest in coaching and scouting.
 
R_A said:
Yeah Bellamy admitted he was never the best or the most talented player always a hard worker who was dogged by injuries. I was trying to think of who in the modern game was kinda an average player who also had injuries but kinda hung around, but has a high ceiling potential as a coach, maybe Ciraldo? Lol, just with less games. Had the size but also seemed to be a smart dude who took a real interest in coaching and scouting.
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I think HVG has said it before, but those honest toilers who never reached the elite level do seem to be the best coaches. Very few of the elite ones even attempt to go on to be coaches, but they generally don’t succeed if they do. Too hard to relate to regular talent maybe … or maybe they just prefer cushy media jobs instead haha.
 
Yea I assume guys like Cooper Cronk and Matty Johns would make okay coaches but don’t want to deal with the pressure and scrutiny compared to their Cushy media jobs. Respect to Luke Keary for admitting the same as much lol (but was open to it one day it seems)

But I totally get Manly thinking they have a lightning in a bottle with Foran as well and giving him the reins.
 
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