Kalyn Ponga discussion

I’m completely over Ponga at the moment to be honest and he’s usually my favourite player.

He always escapes criticism from the masses, it’s not his fault, it’s the other players, the coach, etc. While that’s all true to an extent, serious questions need to be asked about his return on investment.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I also think the narrative that he was responsible for our 10 game run in 2023 isn’t really accurate. The whole team caught fire and built in confidence during that period, and Ponga was able play his best football as a result of the team being on the front foot, he didn’t start or influence it individually himself. Other than few games here and there, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him be able to help turn things around when we’re in poor form. Maybe a game here and there, but never over a consistent period. He usually goes into his shell and becomes a passenger. I don’t expect him to be winning us games single handedly, but for his salary and as captain of the club I at least expect him to be trying to influence results positively. All he seems to want to do is mouth off at the other players while not getting involved himself.

Compare that to Latrell tonight: side in terrible form, on the back foot early on but he stands up and helps his team turn things around. That’s a real clutch player. At the moment unfortunately KP is a flat track bully only.
 
Chaister said:
I’m completely over Ponga at the moment to be honest and he’s usually my favourite player.

He always escapes criticism from the masses, it’s not his fault, it’s the other players, the coach, etc. While that’s all true to an extent, serious questions need to be asked about his return on investment.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I also think the narrative that he was responsible for our 10 game run in 2023 isn’t really accurate. The whole team caught fire and built in confidence during that period, and Ponga was able play his best football as a result of the team being on the front foot, he didn’t start or influence it individually himself. Other than few games here and there, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him be able to help turn things around when we’re in poor form. Maybe a game here and there, but never over a consistent period. He usually goes into his shell and becomes a passenger. I don’t expect him to be winning us games single handedly, but for his salary and as captain of the club I at least expect him to be trying to influence results positively. All he seems to want to do is mouth off at the other players while not getting involved himself.

Compare that to Latrell tonight: side in terrible form, on the back foot early on but he stands up and helps his team turn things around. That’s a real clutch player. At the moment unfortunately KP is a flat track bully only.
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Between suspension , injury & poor form . Latrell has not given them good value . Stood up tonight , but all he has done all year
 
Sarge said:
Between suspension , injury & poor form . Latrell has not given them good value . Stood up tonight , but all he has done all year
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Not saying I’d want to sign Latrell because i definitely wouldn’t, but just pointing out the stark difference between what he and Kalyn did tonight. At different times both of their sides were on the back foot but there were very different responses.
 
Chaister said:
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I also think the narrative that he was responsible for our 10 game run in 2023 isn’t really accurate. The whole team caught fire and built in confidence during that period, and Ponga was able play his best football as a result of the team being on the front foot, he didn’t start or influence it individually himself. Other than few games here and there, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him be able to help turn things around when we’re in poor form. Maybe a game here and there, but never over a consistent period. He usually goes into his shell and becomes a passenger. I don’t expect him to be winning us games single handedly, but for his salary and as captain of the club I at least expect him to be trying to influence results positively. All he seems to want to do is mouth off at the other players while not getting involved himself.
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It’s absolutely not accurate. We pretty consistently played good footy that year, even when he was out. People look too much at results for my money. Some of those near losses are good to great performances on balance. Way better than a bunch of the wins. The winning streak got us to a record that reflected how good the team actually was, rather than salvaging a **** season out of nowhere.

He won the Dally M, and yeah he was our best player in that run. But he wasn’t single handedly dragging us through games with huge running metres etc. He was being put in the best positions of his career.

So: which players were putting him in those positions?

It’s a hard to swallow pill for some, but I still think if there’s one player I’d identify at most important in improving the team that year, for me it’s Jackson Hastings, and then behind him I’d put Tyson Gamble and Adam Elliott… and obviously Dom Young turning half chances - or barely chances - into tries helped heaps too. Obviously there’s a big downside to Jackson as a personality & his body has totally failed him, but he came into a team seriously lacking direction, and our points per game trended up, instantly. It was up when Kalyn was injured too.

Players are on record saying Jackson “got” the principles of the attack a lot quicker than anyone else. Watch those games in early 2023 again: he’s the one pointing and yelling, everyone else is listening and doing what he says. You look at a lot of our attacking movements and it’s him on the first layer working to certain spots, holding up the line to stop it sliding, teeing up his outside men in advantageous positions, etc. Hell, I reckon maybe twenty of our tries that season are just him identifying the right time to cut everyone else out and hit Best and Gagai with early ball, and they did the rest.

And then in 2024 I would attribute our early season bad form, more than anything else, to Jackson playing very very poorly.
 
I really don't like Jacko, think his attitude stinks and he isn't a very good clubman or player but we are at that point where the straightener has to go.

If Gamble still isn't ready then give Jacko a crack.....
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
It’s absolutely not accurate. We pretty consistently played good footy that year, even when he was out. People look too much at results for my money. Some of those near losses are good to great performances on balance. Way better than a bunch of the wins. The winning streak got us to a record that reflected how good the team actually was, rather than salvaging a **** season out of nowhere.

He won the Dally M, and yeah he was our best player in that run. But he wasn’t single handedly dragging us through games with huge running metres etc. He was being put in the best positions of his career.

So: which players were putting him in those positions?

It’s a hard to swallow pill for some, but I still think if there’s one player I’d identify at most important in improving the team that year, for me it’s Jackson Hastings, and then behind him I’d put Tyson Gamble and Adam Elliott… and obviously Dom Young turning half chances - or barely chances - into tries helped heaps too. Obviously there’s a big downside to Jackson as a personality & his body has totally failed him, but he came into a team seriously lacking direction, and our points per game trended up, instantly. It was up when Kalyn was injured too.

Players are on record saying Jackson “got” the principles of the attack a lot quicker than anyone else. Watch those games in early 2023 again: he’s the one pointing and yelling, everyone else is listening and doing what he says. You look at a lot of our attacking movements and it’s him on the first layer working to certain spots, holding up the line to stop it sliding, teeing up his outside men in advantageous positions, etc. Hell, I reckon maybe twenty of our tries that season are just him identifying the right time to cut everyone else out and hit Best and Gagai with early ball, and they did the rest.

And then in 2024 I would attribute our early season bad form, more than anything else, to Jackson playing very very poorly.
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I said it before and I'll say it again.

Dial up that sumbichs meds and get his next to crippled *** on that field.

Nothing fixes a divided dressing room more than winning games and I think he's capable of making It happen.
 
I was at Redfern last week. Hastings was getting on with everyone, encouraging young blokes and talking to some of the older heads 1 on 1 pre game. Set up a few nice tries as well. The problem is he could barely get out of a shuffle. I really, really don’t think his physically up to it. He had a leg break in 2022, then broke his leg against the Dogs and then again in his comeback game against the Raiders. It really sucks because he was probably our most influential player up to that point in 2023, then he was never the same again.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
It’s absolutely not accurate. We pretty consistently played good footy that year, even when he was out. People look too much at results for my money. Some of those near losses are good to great performances on balance. Way better than a bunch of the wins. The winning streak got us to a record that reflected how good the team actually was, rather than salvaging a **** season out of nowhere.

He won the Dally M, and yeah he was our best player in that run. But he wasn’t single handedly dragging us through games with huge running metres etc. He was being put in the best positions of his career.

So: which players were putting him in those positions?

It’s a hard to swallow pill for some, but I still think if there’s one player I’d identify at most important in improving the team that year, for me it’s Jackson Hastings, and then behind him I’d put Tyson Gamble and Adam Elliott… and obviously Dom Young turning half chances - or barely chances - into tries helped heaps too. Obviously there’s a big downside to Jackson as a personality & his body has totally failed him, but he came into a team seriously lacking direction, and our points per game trended up, instantly. It was up when Kalyn was injured too.

Players are on record saying Jackson “got” the principles of the attack a lot quicker than anyone else. Watch those games in early 2023 again: he’s the one pointing and yelling, everyone else is listening and doing what he says. You look at a lot of our attacking movements and it’s him on the first layer working to certain spots, holding up the line to stop it sliding, teeing up his outside men in advantageous positions, etc. Hell, I reckon maybe twenty of our tries that season are just him identifying the right time to cut everyone else out and hit Best and Gagai with early ball, and they did the rest.

And then in 2024 I would attribute our early season bad form, more than anything else, to Jackson playing very very poorly.
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I agree, the amount of good ball our centres got early in 2023 was indicative of how our attack went all year and Hastings was instrumental in that. The Hastings ship has sailed though.

I get frustrated when our centres don't get clean ball at the moment. They can both do something out of nothing. It usually coincides with Sharpe getting little ball in attack. Last night was a great example.

We had some good ball early but Sharpe was frozen out. Cogger was playing on ball and almost exclusively using short balls to forwards. Ponga was noticeably coming to the right a lot but both Cogger and Crossland played away from him when he was in his best position to attack, so then he'd go centrally just to get the ball and whatever he would do lacked imagination. Gags, Best and Sharpe were spectators and our attack looked like it did during our earlier season losses.

When Sharpe finally got the ball from shape he put Lucas over for a try. That noticeably lifted confidence on our left side, ponga started getting in to some nice shape over there with Sharpe and Best got some nice ball and looked really dangerous. I note too that the only clean ball Gags got in the first half was when Sharpe swung over to our right.

Attack second half never got going through dropped ball, but Sharpe was still our most dangerous.

To me, like Hastings in 23, Sharpe is the best facilitator of our centres getting good ball. Without being the main playmaker as such, he needs to be getting the ball in his hands. Ponga needs to be getting the ball in similar areas to where he was in 23 as well. Cogger and Ponga playing through the middle stifles our attack.
 
I love the theory that if we give Ponga the ball at first/second receiver he’s our most creative and will conjure something up. But it’s not happening.

Ponga is more dangerous when he is in the 3 v 3, not passing the ball to the 3 V 3. To me, he is more dangerous as an option in shape. He attracts a defender, maybe 2 to keep an eye on him. If he’s running sideways in a playmaker role, passing the ball, I think it takes away that strength. He’s predictable and in the middle, he can often get tackled pretty easily if he tries something.

On the edge, he can use his speed, power and agility to score or draw in players. Sometimes less is more.

Gamble in next week should see him dominate play calling a bit more. Think Ponga needs to go to Origin to rediscover his strengths, and stick to them. He’s not a 6. Please take him Billy.
 
Tim said:
100%. I think Ponga is massively overplaying his hand. He is probably an average half at best. I wish he wasn't doing the kicking and other half stuff and just focus on being an absolute gun fullback that we all know he is.
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Serious question: Is he a “gun fullback”? Or is he just a really dangerous attacking player who can only play fullback because of his defensive/concussion issues?

He’s been a great kick returner, probably the biggest threat to break the line in the game (that’s been unsighted this year though). He’s been dynamite when the attack works to specific spots and gets him good ball. But key aspects of what you want from your fullback, he’s consistently been inconsistent to poor at.

He’s also always had the mentality of a facilitator rather than the strike weapon, to his detriment: it tends to be handy for your fullback to be a try machine.

That’s been the eternal struggle with him. He’s just never been a square shape for a square hole. There’s a reason coaches keep thinking they should try him at five-eighth.

The best our attack has looked this year is when Sharpe has been in fullback-like positions. Fletcher in contrast to Kalyn is about as natural a fullback as you ever see. Legitimately looks like a better version of Papenhyuzen in the making to my eyes.

The fancy half we’ve signed for ten years has always played 6, and been very good at it…
 
jamesgould said:
The frustrating thing for me is Clune was capable of doing much the same job as Hastings did … and we punted him for Cogger.
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Goes in line with Knights just need a serviceable half who know how to execute a game plan and we'd be a consistent top 6 side. Team is full of guns, match winning players. Best, Sharpe, DOM, Lucas, KP. Just need a good half to direct flow.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
There’s a reason coaches keep thinking they should try him at five-eighth
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And there's a reason he always gets moved back. Outside of the head knocks and defence he fundamentally struggles to play 5/8 sitting in the line with the defence in his face, rather than pushing up into the line with more time and space.

BTP said:
we'd be a consistent top 6 side
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Knights fans always underestimate how far we are away from being a good side.
 
slotmachine said:
And there's a reason he always gets moved back. Outside of the head knocks and defence he fundamentally struggles to play 5/8 sitting in the line with the defence in his face, rather than pushing up into the line with more time and space.



Knights fans always underestimate how far we are away from being a good side.
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I think it takes a couple of good players to make us a better side, namely 9/7/10

Consistently being up there and performing as a club is the issue, we have the team just not the mentality.
 
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