Adam O'Brien replacement?

Get outta my head!
My thoughts exactly - well except that I don't think lamb would end up that great.

Thats one of the issues though. We expect players coming through to grade to hit the NRL nearly a ready made Origin player or chuck them on the scrap heap.

A small exageration maybe, but not by much.

Lamb showed plenty of skills in first grade, playmaking, running game, but partnered with Plodko and in that side, he never stood a chance. If he were seeded in to the Melbourne system or Roosters coming through, I'm betting he is still playing NRL.
 
Lamb was never athletic enough.

He did play for the roosters and they ditched him too.

A good example of targeting the wrong sort of player while telling latrell to take a hike because they didn't like his attitude.

That may have changed if we're targeting someone like Dom Young. Many in England didn't rate him because of questionable hands and defensive positioning but obviously an athletic freak, which you can't coach
 
Lamb was never athletic enough.

He did play for the roosters and they ditched him too.

A good example of targeting the wrong sort of player while telling latrell to take a hike because they didn't like his attitude.

That may have changed if we're targeting someone like Dom Young. Many in England didn't rate him because of questionable hands and defensive positioning but obviously an athletic freak, which you can't coach

The Roosters getting him was after he came through our **** system though which was the point of my post about squandering talent.

After his time in first grade with us I'm surprised he wasn't a basket case for the rest of his days.
 
No system is good enough when your genes didn't come to the party

This is rubbish to be honest, imho.

We look at every excuse to dscredit and justify why a player didn't kick on.

If he were in a Knights squad that wasn't wooden spoon quality, had a decent half to pair with and the team was going well, we wouldn't be complaining about his athelticism.
 
Lamb was never athletic enough.

He did play for the roosters and they ditched him too.

A good example of targeting the wrong sort of player while telling latrell to take a hike because they didn't like his attitude.

That may have changed if we're targeting someone like Dom Young. Many in England didn't rate him because of questionable hands and defensive positioning but obviously an athletic freak, which you can't coach
He was athletic enough for a playmaking role. As Alan Bell told Toohey last week, the knight weren't about to sign the Johns brothers because they weren't athletically gifted. Bell went to bat for them because he could see they were tough and smart. That's how close we were to having an immortal play out his career for the Goannas.
 
I truly believe for the club to be a strong performer long term they need to focus on their juniors and get those systems in place to be churning out consistent competent NRL players, not super stars, but consistent NRL first graders. There should be a sprinkling of superstars in their anyhow.

These players tend to stay for cheaper making salary cap management much easier.

But you can't just have an NRL team full of juniors, so the team needs to be scouring regions for young talent and bringing them to the club early and working them through with our juniors. And this clearly includes islanders and england etc.

Finally, we need to fill a roster and will need to buy in talent already established in first grade. Can't ensure we will have good quality spine players but those are clearly key so need to fill those spots with quality and that is where the savings on those juniors comes to play.

The club needs to go on a promotion blitz and maintain it all around the hunter trying to ensure all junior players have that asperation to play for the Knights.

Brock Lamb, Dylan Pythian, Jack Cogger, Nick Meaney are names that come to mind that are talents we have squandered simply by hitting grade in to a ****house NRL team that chewed them up and spat them back out.

Brock Lamb especially I think was the better talent out of that lot, but was a dead man walking straight from the outset as the team was vrey poor, gave him no chance to find his feet in the NRL, got hammered with criticism and sent packing.

Mark Hughes is a great example, I love Mark Hughes but being brutal he was a fairly average player, but survived in the top grade largely because of the team of players he was with. A player like him wouldn't last in our squad today.
Mark Hughes a great example. Bill Peden the same. Their time with the nucleus of our premiership teams before they hit first grade allowed them to play at their peak once they did.

From here on in I'm going to refer to this evolution in sports thinking as Darwinism, in honour of Ben Darwin's poddy from the other day.
 
I think for those playmakers you’ve gotta have a bunch of kids who have that natural feel for it, then puberty will be very kind to some and less so for others. Sort of like how in basketball a lot of the really great players are ones who were quite little so really worked hard on developing skills, then had an huge growth spurt so you end up with the playing ability of a small guard in the body of a 6’8” forward.
 
I don't think Lamb had the mental desire either ... remembering he had a contract with Parramatta which he backed out of the play for Maitland. He seemed to not enjoy the pressure cooker environment of the NRL.
 
Bell said we are going to regret letting Jonah Pezet go.
Don't know what he means.
The kid is only 6'2" with the speed of a winger and the passing and kicking skills of a firstgrade half when he was 15.
I mean, he's just a skinny kid -
 
I don't think Lamb had the mental desire either ... remembering he had a contract with Parramatta which he backed out of the play for Maitland. He seemed to not enjoy the pressure cooker environment of the NRL.

How would you feel if you came to NRL with the Knights through that time, he made his debut in 2016, and played 2017, both wooden spoon years. Was smashed by fans on socials saying he isn't good enough, then got replaced in the roster when we bought Pearce and Watson and plonked back in reserve grade. 2016 we had all of 1 win all season and 1 draw. 2017 only 5 wins.

I don't have a crystal ball, I can't say Lamb if he came through today or through a better system would have made it I guess, but it can't be easy making a permanent job of the NRL coming to 1st grade in to a wooden spoon quality side as a half, with the weight of rescuing the team on your shoulders. Has to take it's toll mentally.
 
Yeah you never know who's going to kick on or not, but we certainly haven't been the best at developing a player for a long time. Like Cowboyman said, our juniors are dominant pretty much every year but it's been the opposite in the NRL. That has lent towards my view in recent times that everyone who has come to this club is destined to fail at the moment, players and coaches.

I honestly end up feeling sorry for the people involved, the club is a career killer these days for new recruits, coaches and juniors. I don't know the answer to how we fix it. Some of the juniors are duds 100% but I also legitimately believe a lot of them would have kicked on in a better system that isn't so broken.
 
I love the not athletic stuff. Prime example is Cameron Smith. It's all between the ears.
Cam Smith was sneaky big though. Not an amazing physique you’d put on a calendar but he was actually a bigger bloke than a lot of hookers you think of as more “physical” like Michael Ennis, Andrew McCullough etc. Probably made more tackles than any other player in NRL history over the course of his career and you have to be athletic to be able to do that. He wasn’t quick but he was strong.
 
Brown murdered a lot of careers.

His frequent decision to debut young players in positions they had never played in their lives, moving them after a few games to another position they hadn't played, and then throwing them on the scrap heap could be used as a training manuel for coaches - titled "never do this".
 
Brown murdered a lot of careers.

His frequent decision to debut young players in positions they had never played in their lives, moving them after a few games to another position they hadn't played, and then throwing them on the scrap heap could be used as a training manuel for coaches - titled "never do this".
O'Brien is doing similar things with Simi and Crossland.

Crossland should have had an off season as a half and practiced all year in reserve grade. Then got his chance in firsts this week. Not stuffed around as a makeshift lock and hooker.
 
A top 30 should always have at least 2 specialist halfbacks and 3 hookers. The 6/1 is where you most commonly find guys who play both so you can get away with 3 of those total. Then in my view you should also have back up spine options on development contracts.

I find though that teams often have a lot of those 6/1’s and de-emphasise the hooker, to their detriment. I feel like we’ve been guilty of that.
 
Remembering we won the 1995 reggies premiership, before going on to 1997, I think we have to look at grounding our juniors in reggies before they come through again like Melbourne and Penrith have been. Our reggies lately have tended to be the most talented kids playing to get experience against the men.
 
How would you feel if you came to NRL with the Knights through that time, he made his debut in 2016, and played 2017, both wooden spoon years. Was smashed by fans on socials saying he isn't good enough, then got replaced in the roster when we bought Pearce and Watson and plonked back in reserve grade. 2016 we had all of 1 win all season and 1 draw. 2017 only 5 wins.

I don't have a crystal ball, I can't say Lamb if he came through today or through a better system would have made it I guess, but it can't be easy making a permanent job of the NRL coming to 1st grade in to a wooden spoon quality side as a half, with the weight of rescuing the team on your shoulders. Has to take it's toll mentally.
True but he then went to two decent clubs in the Roosters and Eels and didn't make an impact at either of them.
 
I reckon what the panthers are doing is finding two groups of kids at age 15-16. 1st is athletic freaks 2nd are smart/talented players. Keeping them together and getting them super fit and drilling in basic skills. Reassess at 18 years and see who is still an athletic freak once 2 years of training has evened people out and signing them so they can train full time.

Look at to'o doesnt do anything especially talented, but is an athletic freak. Extremely strong pound for pound, durable and huge motor. Put guys like that in a good training system that prepares them physically and constantly drills down simple skills (defense and catch pass). That's what we need to be doing. Isnt anything amazing, just identifying the right guys.

Penrith young guys come in and are ready for the physicality of NRL straight away. All of our guys seem obviously a step behind NRL level.
 
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