Super Coach

Stone is crap.

Hagan had his downsides, but is a decent coach. Our only problem was we kept him on too long. Two or three years would have been ideal for him. Same as he did at Parra (and had similar success).

How can anyone say Stone is half decent, just look at the results!!! :lol:

He's got a long way to go, he should be worrying about keeping his job for next season, at the moment. I'm coming to the conclusion Josh Coe is a troll.

Obviously Mal Reilly was our best coach by a country mile.
 
His winning percentage isn't too bad when you look at it. 29 games, 13 wins, 16 losses, 44.8%. Not that bad i guess, but still not acceptable.
 
In all fairness, that is pretty damn bad. :lol:

Particularly considering he inherited a team that was pretty much unbeatable at home in 2009.
 
how am i a troll.

How can you say Stone is a decent coach after the season we've just had?

Compared to 2009 we scored less points, but conceded 78 more. In comparison, our amount of points conceded in 2008 and 2009 were the lowest since 1999.

Our winning strike rate in his first full year of coaching was 41.67%.

It was our sixth worst amount of games won in 23 years, and our fourth worst in the last 19 years.

Our recruitment has been horrible.

We have gone backwards in most areas of development, going from a side that looked a genuine top four prospect to a wooden spoon contender at times in 2010.

Smith had a bad first year with us in 2007 and turned it around, I hope Stone does the same. But so far it is not promising at all. Yet you call him a "super-coach". It just doesn't make sense, or is a joke.

Personally, I'd be sending out feelers to Brian McClennan, who is currently jobless after years of success with Leeds and the Kiwis, and desperate to crack an NRL head coaching role.
 
There is no way that Stone is a good coach. But I wouldn't say he is a bad one either. I think next year we will see what sort of coach Stone actually is.
 
How can you say Stone is a decent coach after the season we've just had?

Compared to 2009 we scored less points, but conceded 78 more. In comparison, our amount of points conceded in 2008 and 2009 were the lowest since 1999.

Our winning strike rate in his first full year of coaching was 41.67%.

It was our sixth worst amount of games won in 23 years, and our fourth worst in the last 19 years.

Our recruitment has been horrible.

We have gone backwards in most areas of development, going from a side that looked a genuine top four prospect to a wooden spoon contender at times in 2010.

Smith had a bad first year with us in 2007 and turned it around, I hope Stone does the same. But so far it is not promising at all. Yet you call him a "super-coach". It just doesn't make sense, or is a joke.

Personally, I'd be sending out feelers to Brian McClennan, who is currently jobless after years of success with Leeds and the Kiwis, and desperate to crack an NRL head coaching role.

Since 2004 we have averaged 11 wins a season. So we were only one win below our average over that span, a span in which our greatest player played a total of less then 2 full seasons. You cant really compare this side on paper with the ones from 91-2003 IMO.

Of coarse you cant say Stone is a great coach after this season, but you cant say he is a terrible one.

Stone had a lot of things happen in 2010 that didnt happen in 2009. He had to deal with losing 2 top grade forwards (one who was on the brink of SOO), plus all the controversy around that. He had Taia and DeGois coming back from serious late season injuries (both of whom were KEY to our 2009 success).

And the key to the season IMO, was Kurt Gidleys season. He got injured in the all-star game, meaning he missed the entire pre-season. He also missed the 5 games (where we went 1-4). This led to poor crowds early in the season, contributing to EAS not being the fortress is was in 2009.

We were 1-7 (2-2 last year, but we never missed him for more then 1 week at a time) without Gidley this year, the one win coming in round 1 (a game we'd most likely lose if not for the emotion). With Gidley we were 9-7.

Im willing to give Stone the benifit of the doubt for this season, and will judge him at the end of next season on whether he has what it takes to coach in the NRL (he obviously has the resume of a good coach at lower levels of the game).

And on recruitment, you say it has been terrible. What has this got to do with Stone's coaching ability? Doesnt some of that blame come on our recruitment officer, Onslow. I know Stone aint exactly winning players over, like say a Bennett would, but give the guy a break, he has 1 year experience in the NRL, and is coaching a team notorious for not signing high profile guys.

Look who Stone has Signed this year.

Kaufusi
Costigan
Henry
LikiLiki
O'Donnell
Southern

Look who Smith Signed (in his first season)

Cross
Fa'aso
Housten
Wicks
Hilder
Sau
Ciraldo
Naiqama
Taia
Lulia
Vuna

Both had one high profile signing (Cross and Costigan, only Costigan is younger, and on much less money).

Both signed a young centre (Likiliki is by far the more praised centre, Junior was struggling to find a contract).

Both signed players struggling for consistent form, like Kaufusi, Fa'aso, Ciraldo, Naqama, Hilder and Southern.

That Leaves Housten, Wicks, Vuna, Taia, Lulia, O'Donnell and Henry. Young guys with promising futures looking for a go, stuck behind a long line of established FGers at their previously clubs.

And the reasons why Smith had a lot more leverage in terms of signing players, resulting in a higher quantity of players is that 1. He had a clean out, meaning more roster spots available (giving those fringe first graders a legit shot at making the team on an even playing field), 2. Probably had more cash to work with and 3. There were plenty of significant changes to the salary cap this season, resulting in teams being able to retain players with more ease, and less players being squeezed out of clubs.

The recruitment drive this season was completely different to that in 2007. In 2007/2008 we were looking to build a young side, to head into the post Johns/Buderus era. The Core of this side still remains today. Whats lacking is the superstar edge to take it to the next level, which is why the club went after a lot of big names. No point signing another 10 fringe first graders when they most likely are no better then what we have. They might not have come away with getting a superstar, but at least we dont go into 2011 with a weaker playing roster. It was a gamble they could afford to take. It would have been bad if we let go some real promising players to free up the cap space, and then failed to sign a big name, leaving us with a inferior squad with next to no depth.
 
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Since 2004 we have averaged 11 wins a season. So we were only one win below our average over that span, a span in which our greatest player played a total of less then 2 full seasons. You cant really compare this side on paper with the ones from 91-2003 IMO.

Of coarse you cant say Stone is a great coach after this season, but you cant say he is a terrible one.

Stone had a lot of things happen in 2010 that didnt happen in 2009. He had to deal with losing 2 top grade forwards (one who was on the brink of SOO), plus all the controversy around that. He had Taia and DeGois coming back from serious late season injuries (both of whom were KEY to our 2009 success).

And the key to the season IMO, was Kurt Gidleys season. He got injured in the all-star game, meaning he missed the entire pre-season. He also missed the 5 games (where we went 1-4). This led to poor crowds early in the season, contributing to EAS not being the fortress is was in 2009.

We were 1-7 (2-2 last year, but we never missed him for more then 1 week at a time) without Gidley this year, the one win coming in round 1 (a game we'd most likely lose if not for the emotion). With Gidley we were 9-7.

Im willing to give Stone the benifit of the doubt for this season, and will judge him at the end of next season on whether he has what it takes to coach in the NRL (he obviously has the resume of a good coach at lower levels of the game).

And on recruitment, you say it has been terrible. What has this got to do with Stone's coaching ability? Doesnt some of that blame come on our recruitment officer, Onslow. I know Stone aint exactly winning players over, like say a Bennett would, but give the guy a break, he has 1 year experience in the NRL, and is coaching a team notorious for not signing high profile guys.

Look who Stone has Signed this year.

Kaufusi
Costigan
Henry
LikiLiki
O'Donnell
Southern

Look who Smith Signed (in his first season)

Cross
Fa'aso
Housten
Wicks
Hilder
Sau
Ciraldo
Naiqama
Taia
Lulia
Vuna

Both had one high profile signing (Cross and Costigan, only Costigan is younger, and on much less money).

Both signed a young centre (Likiliki is by far the more praised centre, Junior was struggling to find a contract).

Both signed players struggling for consistent form, like Kaufusi, Fa'aso, Ciraldo, Naqama, Hilder and Southern.

That Leaves Housten, Wicks, Vuna, Taia, Lulia, O'Donnell and Henry. Young guys with promising futures looking for a go, stuck behind a long line of established FGers at their previously clubs.

And the reasons why Smith had a lot more leverage in terms of signing players, resulting in a higher quantity of players is that 1. He had a clean out, meaning more roster spots available (giving those fringe first graders a legit shot at making the team on an even playing field), 2. Probably had more cash to work with and 3. There were plenty of significant changes to the salary cap this season, resulting in teams being able to retain players with more ease, and less players being squeezed out of clubs.

The recruitment drive this season was completely different to that in 2007. In 2007/2008 we were looking to build a young side, to head into the post Johns/Buderus era. The Core of this side still remains today. Whats lacking is the superstar edge to take it to the next level, which is why the club went after a lot of big names. No point signing another 10 fringe first graders when they most likely are no better then what we have. They might not have come away with getting a superstar, but at least we dont go into 2011 with a weaker playing roster. It was a gamble they could afford to take. It would have been bad if we let go some real promising players to free up the cap space, and then failed to sign a big name, leaving us with a inferior squad with next to no depth.

Great Post Jonno! :)

Summed it up to a tee. I personally am willing to give Stone another year at the top level before I start criticising and judging. He had a tough run this year with injury and controversy but if we once again see poor results at the end of the next season and we are not featuring in September football, I will be calling for a replacement.
 
Regardless though... signing these project players isn't going to win you a premiership.

To say Stone is the best coach weve had in our history is laughable and disrespectful.
 
Regardless though... signing these project players isn't going to win you a premiership.

Who are you classifying as project players? the young guys like Henry, Odonnell or Likiliki or guys like Kaufusi and Southern? All Smith's signings were project players, guys you pick up cheap because they lack in certain areas, then you coach them to strengthen those areas. However it takes a special coach to see the best in players and bring that out in them, so far its WAY to early to judge with Stone.

Signing high profile players aint going to win you a premiership either. Teams win premierships on the back of juniors, and bargain depth signings of 'project' players. High profile siginings are sometimes the icing on the cake, but without the other two your no chance (see Roosters (pre-smith), Cowboys, Parramatta, Souths and probably the Bulldogs too)
 
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smith.... re-built the club when it was at its worst.... id hate to see where teh club would be now without his input, those that think stone is a "supercoach" he pretty much walked into everything smith set-up... this year will tell
 
smith.... re-built the club when it was at its worst.... id hate to see where teh club would be now without his input, those that think stone is a "supercoach" he pretty much walked into everything smith set-up... this year will tell

I dont think there is too many that actually think he is a supercoach :lol:. (maybe only the thread creator). Wayne Bennett, Jack Gibson are probably the only two in that category.
 
Since 2004 we have averaged 11 wins a season. So we were only one win below our average over that span, a span in which our greatest player played a total of less then 2 full seasons. You cant really compare this side on paper with the ones from 91-2003 IMO.

Of coarse you cant say Stone is a great coach after this season, but you cant say he is a terrible one.

Stone had a lot of things happen in 2010 that didnt happen in 2009. He had to deal with losing 2 top grade forwards (one who was on the brink of SOO), plus all the controversy around that. He had Taia and DeGois coming back from serious late season injuries (both of whom were KEY to our 2009 success).

And the key to the season IMO, was Kurt Gidleys season. He got injured in the all-star game, meaning he missed the entire pre-season. He also missed the 5 games (where we went 1-4). This led to poor crowds early in the season, contributing to EAS not being the fortress is was in 2009.

We were 1-7 (2-2 last year, but we never missed him for more then 1 week at a time) without Gidley this year, the one win coming in round 1 (a game we'd most likely lose if not for the emotion). With Gidley we were 9-7.

Im willing to give Stone the benifit of the doubt for this season, and will judge him at the end of next season on whether he has what it takes to coach in the NRL (he obviously has the resume of a good coach at lower levels of the game).

And on recruitment, you say it has been terrible. What has this got to do with Stone's coaching ability? Doesnt some of that blame come on our recruitment officer, Onslow. I know Stone aint exactly winning players over, like say a Bennett would, but give the guy a break, he has 1 year experience in the NRL, and is coaching a team notorious for not signing high profile guys.

Look who Stone has Signed this year.

Kaufusi
Costigan
Henry
LikiLiki
O'Donnell
Southern

Look who Smith Signed (in his first season)

Cross
Fa'aso
Housten
Wicks
Hilder
Sau
Ciraldo
Naiqama
Taia
Lulia
Vuna

Both had one high profile signing (Cross and Costigan, only Costigan is younger, and on much less money).

Both signed a young centre (Likiliki is by far the more praised centre, Junior was struggling to find a contract).

Both signed players struggling for consistent form, like Kaufusi, Fa'aso, Ciraldo, Naqama, Hilder and Southern.

That Leaves Housten, Wicks, Vuna, Taia, Lulia, O'Donnell and Henry. Young guys with promising futures looking for a go, stuck behind a long line of established FGers at their previously clubs.

And the reasons why Smith had a lot more leverage in terms of signing players, resulting in a higher quantity of players is that 1. He had a clean out, meaning more roster spots available (giving those fringe first graders a legit shot at making the team on an even playing field), 2. Probably had more cash to work with and 3. There were plenty of significant changes to the salary cap this season, resulting in teams being able to retain players with more ease, and less players being squeezed out of clubs.

The recruitment drive this season was completely different to that in 2007. In 2007/2008 we were looking to build a young side, to head into the post Johns/Buderus era. The Core of this side still remains today. Whats lacking is the superstar edge to take it to the next level, which is why the club went after a lot of big names. No point signing another 10 fringe first graders when they most likely are no better then what we have. They might not have come away with getting a superstar, but at least we dont go into 2011 with a weaker playing roster. It was a gamble they could afford to take. It would have been bad if we let go some real promising players to free up the cap space, and then failed to sign a big name, leaving us with a inferior squad with next to no depth.

This is the post of someone hoping that they can think up some justification for why we'll go alright next year. You've thought up plenty of reasons (and excuses for Stone), but still can't argue with the basic facts of the matter.

We went downhill massively from last year, our coach wants a 5% improvement from this shocking season, and our CEO thinks that 2010 was a good season.

Unfortunately the Knights are now satisfied with mediocrity, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

The other two losing seasons in 2005 and 2007 we had many more injuries than this year - and we were a one man team at the time. We weren't a one man team in 2008-09, performing excellently without Buderus and Gidley, but sadly we have become one again in 2010.

Our roster this year was very good - lacking the the halves, but certainly a lot better than 1991-1994.

People seem to point to some good form at the end of the year as a reason we are going to play well in 2011. Well I got news for you all, we won a massive two games in a row, the final three wins after the Canberra shellacking were all at home, and we went down in the final round 34-4.

We went down to North Queensland in golden point time ... this was the Cowboys only win in the last 11 weeks of the season. Rick Stone thought we played really well.

Yes ... excellent coach. He probably gives them a pat on the back if they find their way from the team bus to the changing room.
 
Isnt that what fans are meant to do? believe their teams can make improvements on the season prior and not write the team off in November. Obviously you have an opinion on Stone, and thats your opinion and I respect that, but I myself cannot see the logic in basing Stone's ability on the success of one season. I dont see what happens at training sessions, I dont see what happens in team meetings, and I dont see what goes into gameplans (Even though it may seem they were lacking this season, but thats not always the coaches fault, as coaches are good at different things).

Also if the management were satisfied with mediocrity, why did we sign promising young players, I would think it was to make the team better? Also even though we didnt snag the high profile guys we went after, the team showed an intrest on improvement. I know some of their statements sounded a little weird, saying a 'good' season when we came 11th, but when your heavily tipped for the spoon, and your in finals contention in the second last round, its definately not a horrible season.

I cant compare to teams in the early 90's but this seasons team was probably the weakest on paper (heading into the season) in my time following the knights, remembering Johns was there at the start of 2007.

2011 is the season to judge Stone, give him an uninterrupted offseason, and have a fresh squad in preseason and to start the season (DeGois, Taia, Gidley 100%), and see how he goes.

And I believe you can use the late season form to get an idea on how we will perform next season. We played some really good footy, and stone can use what he learnt there to work on for next year. Also it was the only period of the year where we had Gidley fully focused on the knights, he was injured early season, had all the origin commitments and captain controversy in the middle. Also we could see signs of Taia and DeGois inparticular getting back to their old form. (And we also won 3 in a row before the debacle in the nations capital).
 
This is the post of someone hoping that they can think up some justification for why we'll go alright next year. You've thought up plenty of reasons (and excuses for Stone), but still can't argue with the basic facts of the matter.

We went downhill massively from last year, our coach wants a 5% improvement from this shocking season, and our CEO thinks that 2010 was a good season.

Unfortunately the Knights are now satisfied with mediocrity, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

The other two losing seasons in 2005 and 2007 we had many more injuries than this year - and we were a one man team at the time. We weren't a one man team in 2008-09, performing excellently without Buderus and Gidley, but sadly we have become one again in 2010.

Our roster this year was very good - lacking the the halves, but certainly a lot better than 1991-1994.

People seem to point to some good form at the end of the year as a reason we are going to play well in 2011. Well I got news for you all, we won a massive two games in a row, the final three wins after the Canberra shellacking were all at home, and we went down in the final round 34-4.

We went down to North Queensland in golden point time ... this was the Cowboys only win in the last 11 weeks of the season. Rick Stone thought we played really well.

Yes ... excellent coach. He probably gives them a pat on the back if they find their way from the team bus to the changing room.

So can we finally take it as read James that you hate Stone, don't rate him, will criticise everything he does (so pretty much just continue doing what you've done for the past year) and even if he were to win the premiership in 2011 you still wouldn't be satisfied and would criticise him for not having won it in his first year?

Fair dinkum...
 
I dont think he is a super coach i named the thread to see who you guys thought was the best coach for the knights. we were all agains smith when he sacked home town boys but we loved him in the end. I think stone just needs time.
 
Isnt that what fans are meant to do? believe their teams can make improvements on the season prior and not write the team off in November.

Personally I just like to see my team have a fair dinkum dig at winning the game every week, try their absolute hardest ... and that didn't happen for most of last year, which is why I don't rate Stone at all.

I wanna see my club committed to doing everything possible to be the best, and I don't really see that, either.

Admittedly, from what I see from outside the club, which isn't much. But then, ill-informed opinions are what forums are all about, and I'm just as entitled to my ill-informed opinion as others are to theirs, and you are to yours.

So can we finally take it as read James that you hate Stone, don't rate him, will criticise everything he does (so pretty much just continue doing what you've done for the past year) and even if he were to win the premiership in 2011 you still wouldn't be satisfied and would criticise him for not having won it in his first year?

Fair dinkum...

If we win the premiership of course I will give him his dues! But nice to know your opinion of what you think I'd do.

I'll be happy if we improve, rather than go backwards ... and I think we have the team to make top 6. So that to me would be a successful season and show me that Stone can coach. It's unrealistic to expect us to win the comp, but that should be the team's goal.

I dont think he is a super coach i named the thread to see who you guys thought was the best coach for the knights. we were all agains smith when he sacked home town boys but we loved him in the end. I think stone just needs time.

True that, we sorta got sidetracked from your original post.

But I have to say lots (most?) on here were always right behind Smith getting rid of all the deadwood in the team and bringing in some players who didn't rely on Johns to do it all for them.
 
yes i definetly do agree with that. we were a one man team, we no longer have that tag in the NRL.
 
yes i definetly do agree with that. we were a one man team, we no longer have that tag in the NRL.

We are starting to become a one man team again.

Just this year we have become really reliant on Gidley, so much so, we only one game without him and that game was one on the back of raw emotion.
 
yes but the team has the belief that they can win, and any team would struggle without a player of gidleys class and talent
 
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