HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
It'll be so hard to come back from that mentally. I think it's over.
The NBA Thread
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HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Anunoby should get Finals MVP. He has basically single-handedly shut down the Spurs transition O all series. I've been so impressed.
mullenmagic
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Shocker
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Knicks went 16-3 in the playoffs and had the best playoff +/- in NBA history leading into the finals, at some point maybe they’re just good. Not underdogs.
Yeah Spurs will get better (the inexperience of blowing those two games will hurt), Knicks needed to take advantage of the big lull in the East before everyone is back healthy next year swinging.
The perfect I’m most happy for? Mike Brown, scapegoat a few times and needed to be nothing like Thibs and he was able to be his own man.
danknights
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Wemby needs to be on suicide watch. The depressed look on his face. They got robbed last game. Was hoping for at least 6 games and I hate the NBA. It's just not basketball in its true form I'm afraid.
The number 1 issue every game is that down the stretch the Knicks look more composed and know what they're doing because they have Brunson iso thats a 60% or better shot every time
Spurs looked bad on their end because they dont know who to give it to yet.
Wemby doesnt have an iso game all the rookies look more to give it up rather than shoot it; and Fox you dont want the ball in his hands really as he's been a liability at times
Wembanyama's inability to force coach Brown to put Anunoby on him is loud imo. Whether that is in isolation, pick and roll, pop, high post. Even alley oop layup. Like anything on offense.
That allowed Anunoby to be on Fox. Hart and Bridges on Castle Harper. Essentially wrecking Spurs guards advantage to get into the lane.
At some point in this series, I just laugh at everyone shouting at Fox repeatedly. Gassing up Harper. And no one pointing at Wembanyama. Even with the built in excuses. Spurs hierarchy will change and Harper will be apart of that
Chuck said it at half time
knicks winning because they're only down by 5 when they should have been down 15
Spurs looked bad on their end because they dont know who to give it to yet.
Wemby doesnt have an iso game all the rookies look more to give it up rather than shoot it; and Fox you dont want the ball in his hands really as he's been a liability at times
Wembanyama's inability to force coach Brown to put Anunoby on him is loud imo. Whether that is in isolation, pick and roll, pop, high post. Even alley oop layup. Like anything on offense.
That allowed Anunoby to be on Fox. Hart and Bridges on Castle Harper. Essentially wrecking Spurs guards advantage to get into the lane.
At some point in this series, I just laugh at everyone shouting at Fox repeatedly. Gassing up Harper. And no one pointing at Wembanyama. Even with the built in excuses. Spurs hierarchy will change and Harper will be apart of that
Chuck said it at half time
knicks winning because they're only down by 5 when they should have been down 15
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Mitch Johnson has a lot to answer for tbh. Apparently Harper was unhappy with playing time earlier in the season - yeah, 22 minutes per game, when he was playing well all the time, not a good look!
Then as the playoffs go on they're forced to play him because once we're not smashing opponents easily what was obvious to fans became clear to the staff... Harper is a better player than everyone else on the team besides Wemby.
And then because others are not playable and he needs to give Harper more minutes, we start closing games, *for the first time all season*, with a Harper/Castle/Fox lineup which played 20 minutes together all regular season. Twice as many minutes together in the last two playoff rounds than in the regular season. A bad lineup, because there's not enough shooting. Yeah no ****, it's harder for Harper & Castle to get to the rim when defenders can cheat off their man and clog the lane. I could have told you that!
But also, going to it when they'd not practiced it at all all year. Ludicrous. Contrast with the Knicks who experimented with all sorts of different lineups all season, giving them different stuff to go to when needed.
And now there's a genuine conundrum going forward. Harper has to start. Someone has to go to the bench. What's the good answer here?
Then as the playoffs go on they're forced to play him because once we're not smashing opponents easily what was obvious to fans became clear to the staff... Harper is a better player than everyone else on the team besides Wemby.
And then because others are not playable and he needs to give Harper more minutes, we start closing games, *for the first time all season*, with a Harper/Castle/Fox lineup which played 20 minutes together all regular season. Twice as many minutes together in the last two playoff rounds than in the regular season. A bad lineup, because there's not enough shooting. Yeah no ****, it's harder for Harper & Castle to get to the rim when defenders can cheat off their man and clog the lane. I could have told you that!
But also, going to it when they'd not practiced it at all all year. Ludicrous. Contrast with the Knicks who experimented with all sorts of different lineups all season, giving them different stuff to go to when needed.
And now there's a genuine conundrum going forward. Harper has to start. Someone has to go to the bench. What's the good answer here?
Might be a game to game thing, I don't know. Who starts, who closes etc. The 3 guard lineup on the floor will get more exposure, depending on matchups. But preserving Castle will be necessary.
For next season. Having three high level guards is a good problem to have. And I don't feel there's an issue. They'll play 30 minutes per game and eat up all the rotation minutes at guard.
I also did get intrigue, when I saw that aggregated bait from Vassell. But there was missing context (i.e. question iirc was how the rookies came along for the season). Guess sometimes you have to anticipate rookies hit a wall, manage that all accordingly.
As for the longer term future regarding salaries and everyone's favourite Fox trade proposals, that will eventually happen. But expansion might have a word.
I wonder whether the Celtics model was the key to follow as well. It’s like giving Jaylen Brown the ball handling responsibilities. Marcus Smart was the better PG, and let Brown develop his ball handling and decision making / passing in the earlier years. Brown and Harper seem to be better at SG with some PG responsibilities and not the other way around. Castle probably does needs to control his turnovers as well. Tony Parker was the same for a while learning the ropes.
For next season. Having three high level guards is a good problem to have. And I don't feel there's an issue. They'll play 30 minutes per game and eat up all the rotation minutes at guard.
I also did get intrigue, when I saw that aggregated bait from Vassell. But there was missing context (i.e. question iirc was how the rookies came along for the season). Guess sometimes you have to anticipate rookies hit a wall, manage that all accordingly.
As for the longer term future regarding salaries and everyone's favourite Fox trade proposals, that will eventually happen. But expansion might have a word.
I wonder whether the Celtics model was the key to follow as well. It’s like giving Jaylen Brown the ball handling responsibilities. Marcus Smart was the better PG, and let Brown develop his ball handling and decision making / passing in the earlier years. Brown and Harper seem to be better at SG with some PG responsibilities and not the other way around. Castle probably does needs to control his turnovers as well. Tony Parker was the same for a while learning the ropes.
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HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Respect to Fox for toughing it out on an ankle injury which affects his shooting.
But why did they continue to go to him down the stretch, in that case. If they kept him to 25 minutes and he puts up 8 points 6 assists and just sets up other guys, no one is mad, everyone respects him for toughing it out. But instead they insist on playing through his gimped crunch time mid range shot creation?
Moreover, and this is a weird thing to say about a finals team, but he and Wemby actually have awful synergy. Wemby is a terrible screen setter who always wants to ghost the screen and dive to the basket. His best asset as a roller is actually gravity, no one is leaving Wemby free for the lob to close out to the guard, so paradoxically the fact that Harper is kind of a meh pick & roll passer but outlier driver who tends to look for a lay-up, that actually makes him the best pick & roll partner for Wemby because he's the most well-equipped to beat his man (after Wemby didn't effectively screen them off). This is all borne out by analytics. Harper has the highest PPP as the pick & roll ball handler on the roster. The best guard/Wemby duo by netrtg is Wemby & Harper. The best three man lineups are Wemby/Harper/Vassell and Wemby/Harper/Champ. Etc.
But why did they continue to go to him down the stretch, in that case. If they kept him to 25 minutes and he puts up 8 points 6 assists and just sets up other guys, no one is mad, everyone respects him for toughing it out. But instead they insist on playing through his gimped crunch time mid range shot creation?
Moreover, and this is a weird thing to say about a finals team, but he and Wemby actually have awful synergy. Wemby is a terrible screen setter who always wants to ghost the screen and dive to the basket. His best asset as a roller is actually gravity, no one is leaving Wemby free for the lob to close out to the guard, so paradoxically the fact that Harper is kind of a meh pick & roll passer but outlier driver who tends to look for a lay-up, that actually makes him the best pick & roll partner for Wemby because he's the most well-equipped to beat his man (after Wemby didn't effectively screen them off). This is all borne out by analytics. Harper has the highest PPP as the pick & roll ball handler on the roster. The best guard/Wemby duo by netrtg is Wemby & Harper. The best three man lineups are Wemby/Harper/Vassell and Wemby/Harper/Champ. Etc.
The Harper/Wemby growing pains (and even the grown man strength Wemby pains) are stuff that can easily be worked on and fixed, no question. Even if he can be a bit like Kareem...who was never a banger inside... but he was so smart at getting to the right spots. Even the beat writers did not seem to notice that Fox was covering for Harper's issues that series. Because if Fox benched, then Anunoby wrecks Castle or Harper? While Bridges or Hart take the other rookie/sophomore? Hmmm
I think with 'prime' Fox, it's also a bit of a different ball game, the one that is excellent at generating his own offense as well... just couldn't get it done this time. Just needed from their starting PG.
Also there was some teams stuff...his teammates inability to throw alley oops. But there were multiple alley oops that he outright missed throughout the series. On clean rolls where he was not tagged. Just because a defender's hand was on his hips. Whether missing the layups, a few crucial ones too. Because he was going too fast...Anunoby never had the primary defensive assignment on Wembanyama. But he did have a marked effect on Wemby when he did guard him. Which surprised me a lot. Until it did not. I had kept thinking pre-Finals thinking it'll be the matchup. Then during the series, it'll be coach Brown's ace up his sleeves. And it never happened.
I think with 'prime' Fox, it's also a bit of a different ball game, the one that is excellent at generating his own offense as well... just couldn't get it done this time. Just needed from their starting PG.
Also there was some teams stuff...his teammates inability to throw alley oops. But there were multiple alley oops that he outright missed throughout the series. On clean rolls where he was not tagged. Just because a defender's hand was on his hips. Whether missing the layups, a few crucial ones too. Because he was going too fast...Anunoby never had the primary defensive assignment on Wembanyama. But he did have a marked effect on Wemby when he did guard him. Which surprised me a lot. Until it did not. I had kept thinking pre-Finals thinking it'll be the matchup. Then during the series, it'll be coach Brown's ace up his sleeves. And it never happened.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Legitimately think this is overstated, with respect. And also Fox can't get credit for drawing Anunoby and letting Harper attack weaker defenders if he's looking off Harper to iso on OG himself. When Fox was out for two games, and they had to go to Harper way more, he was 24-10-6 with 7 steals in game 1 WCF, and then 12-2-3 in just over 20 minutes before getting hurt in game 2, good efficiency in both games given circumstances, 2 turnovers across the two games. And Harper was great in the clutch/OT in game 1.
Here's my theory. With Fox out, forcing them to problem solve on the fly, they default to their basic first three quarters offence - get the guards or Wemby two feet in the paint, force the D to collapse, rotate, etc, find the open man. It wasn't perfect but they found enough points.
With Fox in, he just takes the open middies or pull up 3's on the table. The process is not good. He isn't a good off the dribble pull up shooter beyond 10 feet, and he'd lost the burst that forces defenders to give him a cushion in that range.
Maybe it'll be different with him fully fit next off season.
Having had a chance to look at some of the other data...
www.nba.com
Once Harper gets defended by Knicks starter Hart Anunoby Bridges. It isn't as nice. Fox was primarily defended by Anunoby. Hart on Castle. Bridges on Harper, if not playing against bench.
Data analytics matches the eye test.
It goes back to Wembanyama
Which then becomes the what if. Healthy Jalen Williams, Gilgeous Alexander, and Dort would have been enough. If Finals version of Wembanyama played on offense in West Finals.
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Once Harper gets defended by Knicks starter Hart Anunoby Bridges. It isn't as nice. Fox was primarily defended by Anunoby. Hart on Castle. Bridges on Harper, if not playing against bench.
Data analytics matches the eye test.
It goes back to Wembanyama
Which then becomes the what if. Healthy Jalen Williams, Gilgeous Alexander, and Dort would have been enough. If Finals version of Wembanyama played on offense in West Finals.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
I'm honestly confused about what you're trying to say here.
Harper vs Anunoby - 6/15 - 40%
Harper vs Bridges - 6/15 - 40%
Harper vs Hart - 4/7 - 57%
Fox vs Anunoby - 7/21 - 33.3%
Fox vs Bridges - 1/9 - 11.1%
Fox vs Hart - 2/10 - 20%
Harper is 16/37 against the Knicks' key wing defenders, Fox 10/40... the data says Harper did better, usually much better, against every possible matchup except Mitchell Robinson weirdly so, the one thing Harper maybe got a bit wrong was going at a shot blocker overzealously. But at least the man was attacking.
And about 2/3 of Harper's buckets were self-generated too, the dude is not being spoonfed easy looks as some suggest. Granted, more of Fox's buckets are self-generated, but it's not a huge gap, and the bigger issue was what a high % of those self-generated shots are bad offence, just walking into a long pull up jumper he shoots bad %'s on. Honestly think there's some overthinking going on. The most consistent good offence in the finals came from Harper getting downhill. They should have gone to that more. They should have looked to run sets that get him opportunities to attack off the catch. If you take about 20 FGA's over the series off the other two guards, collectively, who were struggling, and give them to Harper, the Spurs win in 5 instead, or we're going to a game 6 with the Spurs up 3-2.
I also, further, think that the team cost themselves games earlier in the playoffs by not building up Harper's minutes and featuring more in the offence all season. I think we might have swept the first two series if Harper is an every game 30 minutes+ guy, but they picked Keldon getting 6MOTY over a championship there too.
I think they've pissed away a golden opportunity to do something special here on rookie/vet politics. The kid never complained once about coming off the bench. All you had to do was give him minutes, opportunity, and more rope. I will always believe the organisation cost themselves a championship this season. There's no excuse.
Harper vs Anunoby - 6/15 - 40%
Harper vs Bridges - 6/15 - 40%
Harper vs Hart - 4/7 - 57%
Fox vs Anunoby - 7/21 - 33.3%
Fox vs Bridges - 1/9 - 11.1%
Fox vs Hart - 2/10 - 20%
Harper is 16/37 against the Knicks' key wing defenders, Fox 10/40... the data says Harper did better, usually much better, against every possible matchup except Mitchell Robinson weirdly so, the one thing Harper maybe got a bit wrong was going at a shot blocker overzealously. But at least the man was attacking.
And about 2/3 of Harper's buckets were self-generated too, the dude is not being spoonfed easy looks as some suggest. Granted, more of Fox's buckets are self-generated, but it's not a huge gap, and the bigger issue was what a high % of those self-generated shots are bad offence, just walking into a long pull up jumper he shoots bad %'s on. Honestly think there's some overthinking going on. The most consistent good offence in the finals came from Harper getting downhill. They should have gone to that more. They should have looked to run sets that get him opportunities to attack off the catch. If you take about 20 FGA's over the series off the other two guards, collectively, who were struggling, and give them to Harper, the Spurs win in 5 instead, or we're going to a game 6 with the Spurs up 3-2.
I also, further, think that the team cost themselves games earlier in the playoffs by not building up Harper's minutes and featuring more in the offence all season. I think we might have swept the first two series if Harper is an every game 30 minutes+ guy, but they picked Keldon getting 6MOTY over a championship there too.
I think they've pissed away a golden opportunity to do something special here on rookie/vet politics. The kid never complained once about coming off the bench. All you had to do was give him minutes, opportunity, and more rope. I will always believe the organisation cost themselves a championship this season. There's no excuse.