The NBA Thread

It's a hard matchup. They gave us fits in the regular season. I think the Spurs are a lot better now, but I think OG is the most effective defender on Wemby in the league.

I don't think the Knicks playoff run is just crap opposition, I think they're a championship level team. Would have beaten the 2023 Nuggets, 2021 Bucks, 2019 Raptors, and I think it's a coin flip vs the 2022 Warriors, 2020 Lakers. A similar team in a lot of ways to the 2024 Celtics but with a better coach and a true closer.

I think you're underestimating Brunson, I think he gets underrated because yeah defensive limitations, but he's one of the most scheme/coverage-immune offensive players in the league. Whatever you throw at him he's got an adjustment, I think because he's always had to work hard for his offence instead of rely on just one OP trait. Great on ball, great off ball, great within the flow of a team offence, great taking over and going iso into a middy or pull up 3. I'm kind of scared of him tbh. People seem to gloss over this but I'm pretty sure he averages more PPG on better efficiency than Shai in the playoffs since he got to New York vs Shai since returned to the playoffs after they tanked.

Robinson caused problems because one of the Spurs few weaknesses is vs teams that crash the offensive boards, so if their offence stalls they absolutely just have the option of taking contested jumpers and crashing the boards and possessionmaxxing their way to good offence.

I legit think it's a coin flip. Have so much respect for this Knicks team & we forget that 2 years ago a team construction of five very good to great players + a few impactful bench role players let the Celtics cruise to a title, after which people were talking dynasty. I don't think that team construction suddenly became less effective because the 2025 finals was a matchup between two teams which rolled 10+ deep.

In the conference finals, 3 Spurs wins were: Wemby playing out of his mind, Vassell consistent, and then one or both of Harper & Castle having a hugely impactful game. A lot of the other guys really struggled in the first 6 games. Wemby had 4 average games (by his standards), and out of those, only in game 7 did you get Champagnie, Fox & Keldon all having really good games. It's been glossed over but Wemby had one shot attempt zero rebounds in the fourth quarter of game 7 - he was completely bushwhacked and his role just became protecting the paint and drawing doubles. His guys got it done for him. I think in the finals, the Spurs will need two games like this from the supporting cast. Not one.

Also: More Harper minutes plz. It's crazy to me he's not getting over 30.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
Haha yeah I don't want to go the early crow - I hated him in the draft and thought he was gonna bust, and I very often have take lock with these sorts of things, reluctant to give up my bias even though he's clearly been a good NBA player - but yeah I think he's just a role player. A handy, unique one, but way closer to like a Myles Turner with some sliders adjusted than the "white KD + perennial all defensive player" he was hyped as.

And yeah that's a dilemma for them. Being the 2nd draft pick who has panned out as a good player almost guarantees it's gonna be very hard to keep him on significantly less than a max. Look at the bag Jalen Green, who arguably isn't even good, got.

And you could very likely get a huge haul for trading him, and keep churning through draft picks. They'd be able to keep all of Dort, Wallace, Joe & whoever else they like who isn't in the rotation yet, plus they'd be able to keep bringing in new young Cason Wallaces and Lu Dorts. And they looked like contenders without him too. It's been very funny to me listening to pundits talk about how good the Thunder were "when they didn't even have Chet in the lineup" - honestly I think he's at most their fifth best & most important player right now. Dort and Caruso impact winning more. Advanced stats point to Hartenstein being a better player too. But that shows the regard he's held in, and it's inflated by the draft hype.

Shai, JDub & 5-6 very good role players is an every year contender for about 8 years. Shai, JDub, Chet and a handful of average to poor role players? I don't know that that's still a contender.
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Haha here’s my Chet take from a year ago, feel like I owe an apology to Myles Turner!

Hot take I don’t think Chet’s defence is actually that good, it’s elevated by system/situation. How often does he just get bumped out of the way around the rim?

For me Cason Wallace is actually their best defender and he’s the guy they should be trying hardest to cling onto.

The actual “second best defender in the league” after Wemby is not Chet. I would say it’s either Mobley, Anunoby or Ausar Thompson.
 
Ive still got it 80/20 Spurs personally...Their biggest challenge may be the Knicks bully ball that Spurs rotation will have to handle and solve. As should be Spurs season long weakness. Especially if Robinson's broken hand makes it tougher to grab offensive rebounds for Knicks.

But having experienced bully ball from Blazers Holiday (maybe), Wolves Gobert Randle Reid, Thunder Hartenstein Dort, Spurs should have enough data (and Playoffs experience) to get on with a solution. Wembanyama will easily evolve imo. It'll be the rest of the "smaller" wings guards that have to figure it out.

Anyway see how it goes
 
I reckon if Mitchell Robinson is seriously encumbered, that makes a huge difference. He's the guy that's actually hurt us a lot in previous games with them. Bully ball as you say.

We *should* have more scope to pick on their weak defenders than them, particularly when the bench comes on, when there's two of Brunson, McBride & Shamet on the floor I feel good about our guards torching them.

The Knicks are a great resilient team though and the thing you really need to do to beat the Spurs is shoot well from 3, which the Knicks have been great at.
 
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If the Spurs **** a championship away over vet heirarchy nonsense I am going to send Mitch Johnson a pipe bomb in the mail.

Harper is the second best player on the team.
 
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Hmmm, just a weakness all playoffs. If defence is too physical in the paint, Wemby gets the ball at 3pt and tries to create from there, usually a 3pt shot because he can shoot over anybody, but if he has a bad shooting night spurs lose.

Wemby needs to play closer to the basket, but he hasn’t figured that out yet. Dirk did the same thing too early in his career. When Dirk played more in the midrange he drew more doubles

But Wembanyama is evolving throughout each series. I was surprised that it was Towns defending him. Instead of Anunoby, who most likely is coach Brown's ace up his sleeve later in the series. And Towns did relatively well, especially one on one. On many Wembanyama drives.

I don't think the Dirk in high post is in his game yet. What he has added instead is the Hakeem face up spin. The spin into a fade was seen in West Conference Semis against Gobert. So maybe that's for another offseason.

Not sure if I have an issue closing with the starters. The whole Spurs team wasn't really in sync in the second half anyway on offense. Getting defended well by Knicks. Maybe a few games in you go with whos hot/not.
 
I just think he's a better player than the other two guards. I don't care who sits. Also Castle can play the 3 so you could play all three of them.

Just feel like the process is better with him there. Two feet in the paint, find the open man or take a good shot if it's there, etc.

What you're describing with Wemby is his next evolution for me. He really needs to streamline his game and have some go-to things, rather than still be trying **** in the NBA finals. He's an amazing lob threat but doesn't actually set good screens so that's why it's sometimes there sometimes not.

Definitely think the answer is some time with Dirk or KD, the brand of offence they play(ed) is for want of a better term "easy" and lets him conserve energy for defence, and yeah Harper/Castle are an amazing counterpoint to capitalise off his gravity. Getting him into the paint will always be there in the fourth quarter.
 
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I do wonder whether the second half was just a team thing, couldn't figure out the knicks defence. Electric first half for sure.
 
Knicks went back to old Knicks and were too Brunson centric is the 2nd half. KAT fouls didn’t help, and OG was too tired after being the best Knicks player on both sides.

Coach Johnson really going to the bench early. Including Keldon Johnson. Will not let anything else distract. Hat tip. With a game high +14. 16 minutes played. I am shocked. Did not see it.
A far cry from being "bad" this whole playoffs. Except for a sequence or two, in the last two months. To the point that while Spurs is about chasing fastbreak opportunities almost at all times, I was thinking maybe Johnson should stop dribbling. And instead look for a guard to pass. At various points of today's game. Because it's been an adventure. Even if Spurs are desperate for any big body against Knicks.

Though I'm not sure if Fox, Castle, Harper lineups aren't the solution.. Because the length difference against Anunoby, Bridges is there. Hart, Bridges, Anunoby can switch across either Harper, Fox, Castle without issue. Makes the spacing provided by Champagnie is necessary.
 
I think at the end of the game when you just need buckets and stops, and good decisions, I want the best 5 guys out there.

I'll tell you why I think KJ's influence was positive, his main assignment was KAT and he was wrestling with him in the way that wings and big men have been wrestling with Wemby all playoffs. Keldon's decision making isn't always perfect but he has that solid build low centre of gravity where he can push KAT out a bit and take away catches.

In fact it seemed to me like as a whole the gameplan emphasised containing KAT, they were happy to single cover Brunson. We have the guards to do that so it makes sense to me.
 
I really thought the Knicks wings of Hart ,Anunoby, Bridges would easily blow that 3 guards up by switching or dropping on defense. Negating whatever speed advantages Castle, Fox, Harper might even have. That's why I think there were possessions during clutch time that Spurs looked "lost" and not particularly able to run any offense.

Agree as well that Johnson primarily on Towns was a way. It made Kornet at least "playable". I still give a hat tip to Fox, that on the many defensive rotations, he still was game on being matched on Towns. Carter Bryant trying his best to stay afloat in this game (and the series) is just so funny imo.
 
Fox is a way better defender than it seems like he should be.

Apparently the leg injury he’s playing through is pretty nasty, like off season surgery nasty. Newfound respect.
 
Knicks defended better in the 2nd half. Spurs were not touching paint and then passing for open 3.

It's not just Anunoby on Fox. But Anunoby on Fox blows up the Fox pick and roll pop with Wembanyama. Not needing Knicks to do any of those tagging thing. Anunoby is coach Brown's ace up in his sleeves.

Could have countered with Castle pick and roll pop with Wembanyama. But Castle picked up another of those "unnecessary" fouls early in the 2nd half.

Only worry now is Wembanyama a flagrant foul from suspension. A wayward closeout. A rebound scramble. And an elbow by a very tall person hits an average height basketball player's head. That's too many chances in the next two games.
He decided that he wanted to waste his energy taunting Robinson in the Finals. Then accidentally elbowing Towns later to "begin" the avalanche. Missing the FTs later didn't help either

Get it to a G6 and the pressure is on
 
He's had 2 blatant flagrants completely ignored in the previous games. Neither even called a foul. Finally gave him one today for what was a less egregious act than the previous 2, and happened to be while they were up 30 and it was probably going to have minimal effect on the outcome. Reckon he could pull out a gun and shoot someone and it won't be called a flagrant the rest of the way. I stay away from ref blaming in all sports because it's just boring but the reffing has been bizarrely one-sided, and that's been vindicated by non-Knicks fans and media members.

Nonetheless it's been a great series so far. All close games. All exciting. Lots of drama. 2 good teams. Spurs have probably even been "in control" for more time than the Knicks. The Knicks just hang around and then nail the big moments far, far better, and that's been enough.

Thought Knicks in 5 before game 1. That seemed dead at halftime. The way it played out has kind of thrown me off anyway. A loss like that would historically be really tough to bounce back from, but I think their youth actually might help them in that regard. Knicks have closed out the previous 3 series' on the road, each time putting their foot on the throat early. Hoping for more of that, but going to need everyone to click back into gear after 2 pretty bad performances as a whole. Was basically a 2-man effort today with Brunson being Brunson and Anunoby having an all-time great finals performance.
 
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