The NBA Thread

The way the other guys really didn’t help him with the double teams when since Harper has been out has frustrated me a lot though… no one moving their feet to give him an easy pass, no one cutting, etc, when Dylan wasn’t playing.

They handled it better today but it’s crazy that a rookie less than ten games into his career had the best instincts and I guess everyone else needed a breakdown of that to do in the video room?
 
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I think there was some benefit to Castle getting thrown into the deep end of the pool last season because various injuries (Sochan, Wembanyama, Fox). And got the counting numbers due to that, to grab the Rookie of the Year award.

But the amount of times I keep getting reminded he got one year under Chris Paul is now a lot. Aside from last season's, there was yesterday's game. A few good pull ups and fadeaways.

If coach Johnson decides to keep the ball in Castle's hands to negate the lack of range shooting, then Fox moving becomes harder to guard without the ball? Because Castle is willing and capable passer, just with bad "habits".

On the topic of the younger guys
Carter Bryant (playing "non garbage minutes"). Game against Pelicans yesterday. Interesting. Spurs loading up on big wings. He does have understanding of defensive rotations plus who's a threat. Even tried to bring the ball up court on a semi fastbreak. I do wonder what their development plan will be for him.

Not going to lie. For Spurs, I wondered greedily if the recent Pelicans Hawks trade (for 13th pick Queen) could have been had for 14th pick (Bryant). What would the reactions by NBA fans be for unprotected Pelicans pick.
 
Haha yeah the Spurs would have said yes.

The crazy thing about that Pelicans-Hawks trade was that apparently the Pels were calling teams as early as the Nets at 8 with the offer of an unprotected first in 2026 to move back. Why would you say no? The 8th pick for another throw of the dice at getting a top pick next year in another loaded draft? That's a no brainer at that point, well before pick 13.

I guess teams really really zero in on "their" guys in the draft and fall in love. Which is bad process.

Bryant is going down to the G League when that season starts I think and his development plan will be a classic Spurs development plan. He's a like a lab grown 3&D prospect but the Spurs will want him to develop as a connective playmaker making quick reads in the flow of the offence.
 
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I was thinking as well the rest of the NBA is so happy that Philadelphia hit the lottery (top 6 protections), else their pick go to Oklahoma. And Oklahoma would surely have done that trade, with no roster spots available back in June 2025 for their 2025-26 team. And we all would have rolled our eyes at it.

In regards to getting ‘your guy’ or a guy you love It's I guess in combination with not knowing where your guy is going to be drafted that can become a problem.
If you had say moved up to grab Giannis pick 12 you would have looked like a genius.
If you had moved up to grab jokic pick 12 then you do look like a genius but you could have also been able to nab him pick 30 or even 50.

Queen reportedly wasn't on anybodys "must have" radar so the stupidity was moving up at all to grab him.
 
Anyway Nico almost made it to the end of the year but with Dallas’ start and the negative energy that is just him existing in that environment has taken its toll on the powers who make the big decisions.
I think if you’re going to make such a move at least back the guy who makes the call to let him finish it out. But as we’ve seen with many aspects of the NBA there is unsurprisingly never any patience anymore.
As much as he is a state the obvious guy Windhorst it really is a ‘saving their brand’ firing.

Thinking back to the other stories coming out from memory about Nico being super controlling and basically getting rid of anyone who wasn’t a ‘yes man’ to his idea even the trainers and conditioning staff/dieticians who were on Lukas side of things when it came to all that injury management stuff and going cold on them just makes you realise how much of a mess this is and how far it set the team back.

The only glimmer of shining light is being able to get Flagg and hell they may even be back in the lottery again lol
 
Apparently also all the good moves they made that got them into the 2024 finals were the brainchild of Dennis Lindsey too, and Nico fired him a scant few months before he then made the Luka trade. Lindsey is now the deputy GM at the Pistons.

He got rid of their head of performance/conditioning, who’s now at the Knicks (was close with Jalen Brunson). Knicks are consistently one of the healthier teams, OG is playing way more than he did in Toronto.

He got rid of assistant head coach Sean Sweeney, who oversees defensive schemes. Mavs defence has badly fallen off a cliff. He’s now at San Antonio and the Spurs defence is massively improved.

They made two of the greatest draft day decisions of all time in 2018 and since then, other than 23-24 when Dennis Lindsey was able to put a good enough team around Luka in the one year he was there to make them a contender, it’s been a ****ing omnishambles. Screwed the pooch so hard it’s filing a police report.
 
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Interesting the mention of Lindsey, Cuban is a big fan of him and some reports suggesting he hopes to lure him back to Dallas. Irrespective of what one personally thinks about the bloke the guy definitely cared for the team and this disaster would have never happened under his watch.
I’m not sure he has any pull but I did think from time to time they leaned on him for consulting but not totally sure.

Poor AD though is actually a super productive guy when he’s healthy, and even if that is not why he’s top 10 you’re saying top 15. The guy was Wemby is becoming in fantasy basketball before Wemby lol.
He was also probably pressured into playing sooner earlier this year after the trade which didn’t do himself any favours.

My hunch is that from a small sample size Kyrie and AD aren’t a great mix. A Two way guy like AD is always going to have value on the market. Keep one or the other, they’ve commited to Kyrie and it’ll be more impossible to move him at the moment.

Just come up with stupid trades at this rate lol…
Imagine calling Charlotte before the draft and asking for #4 and the 2027 pick back. Maybe twist in Mark Williams but the dollars won’t work.

Get Zion and a pick perhaps? Have the skill to pull off getting Herb or Murphy in there too lol.

Pray that you can get Amen Thompson + filler but Rockets would never do that.
 
I am still happy to give it 20+ games to see how Cam fits but that Denver team is humming good, defensively and playmaking he’s more than adequate.
I’m sure the Murray +4 bench lineups are just gathering information to see who you can use with who as well.
Was still well worth the MPJ trade to get those guys.

To think they almost may not have gotten Hardaway as they already agreed to bring back BB before it was official which led to Russ being ‘reluctant’ to coming back (and opting out) as Adelman claimed his role would be shrunk if he did come back. If they keep Russ they almost certainly don’t afford Hardaway.

Already well documented as well Murray had been putting in the work all summer in Denver too.

They’re gonna all need to be to give their guy another shot at the MVP, which in itself is a very great and interesting race between five guys who I don’t need to name.

And hell throw in a few roughies like Maxey/Cade/Edwards lol
 
And yeah Denver is my pick to win the title. Ajay Mitchell breaking into OKC’s rotation (and looking like the 6MOTY favourite) is a ****ing ridiculous wrinkle for that team though lol. Their one issue is a team is that their half court offence can get a bit static and over-reliant on Shai’s shot creation. JDub is a great great player but I think he’s way better in the minutes where he’s the counterpoint to another on-ball creator than in the minutes without Shai (which is barely a criticism, most players are like that, but I mean I think the drop off is a bit bigger than it was, for example, in Kyrie’s minutes without LeBron/Luka, Brown’s without Tatum, etc).

But now with Mitchell they will always be able to have 2 genuine ball handlers on the floor at all times. JDub will always share his minutes with Mitchell or Shai. It’s scary as hell.

In saying that, I think OKC vs Jokic + an actual bench is a coin flip still. 7 game series.
 
Yeah for sure, Adelman has already put his own imprint in the team hasn’t he?
Aside from Jokić breaking box scores and defenses, the inconceivable becoming an everyday occurrence…
Decreased (slightly) Jokić's post touches in favor of working through him more up top, makes it tougher to crowd him, easier to move into split actions/DHOs and, with such great spacing, kicks the backdoor open.
Just really interesting to see what cards are shown later when it matters.
 
More out on Nico’s firing…just a guy out of his depth when it came to running a team and roster building, just seemed pretty under qualified and sold the new owners hopes and dreams and wanted to seem like a genius trading Luka who’s perceived ‘issues’ were easily fixable. Yet trade for a guy who has a history of injury issues. That continue and linger.
I didn’t realise Cuban had such a stake in the ownership I thought minority was like less then 10% or so or around that.
Seems like he’s more back in the fold after being shut out by Nico. We all know Nico wanting to shut out anyone that had as much pull to be a threat to him. Even thought he (Cuban) involved himself a bit more then most owners he still knew his bball and if it’s true the issues on offence he thought would happen were mentioned by him…though I guess anyone could say that considering they built the offense around Luka and they traded away the centrepiece for that. We have discussed that here already so it’s nothing new.
Makes me think Nico didn’t really know what he was thinking.
The other thing that seemed to irk people and fans was him taking credit and acting like he it was his plan all along to land Flagg. Yes he’s an excellent prospect and already a solid two way guy who plays some good one on one D you’re still on two timelines. You’re still almost pretty much going to start again.
 
“Now you can see my vision” (said vision relied on a 1.8% chance of something happening, apparently). Yeah that’s was laughable.

The big risks taken to put that 2024 team around Luka coming off had the unfortunate result of the top brass then concluding Nico was a genius (his own self regard clearly went through the roof too). Kyrie was the most toxic player in the league with arguably negative trade value and he gave up a pick to get him. PJ Washington has his fans but they bet bigger on him than others would have. Etc. And all this happened in the wake of Jalen Brunson walking out on them, for which Cuban seems to get most of the blame usually.

So yeah the stage was set: Cuban pushed out, complete trust in Nico to make any decision he wanted. Unfortunately Nico is actually crazy (eg he has Jrue Holiday and Joker on the same “tier” in his internal player rankings) and if you go back and look at every transaction, a lot of his tenure was just throwing **** at the wall to see what would stick, and some of it just happened to stick very very hard… but also, the overwhelming thing that ever made anything work there was Luka. And apparently he didn’t realise that. Apparently he didn’t get that when you build a team specifically tailored around one guy, and give up almost all your assets to do that, you should probably keep that guy.
 
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Yeah the blame game/credit game is an interesting one…

Cuban hired Harrison to the top job to land marquee free agents. Because Mavs famously keep getting shortlisted and always the bridesmaid. But he failed to realise that Doncic's "meteoric" rise cut short former former GM Nelson's team development plans (Porzingis trade). Mavs would not draft in the lottery anymore.

Then who gets credit or "discredit" for lucking out of Kuzma? Heh

“Harrison was adamant in talks with Dumont that the basketball operations department would function much better without Cuban's constant interference, sources said. Dumont believed he had proof of concept after the Mavs' 2023-24 season took off following trade-deadline deals to acquire Daniel Gafford and P.J. Washington, albeit only after the Washington Wizards allowed Kyle Kuzma to veto a deal in which Dallas would have given up a pair of first-round picks for him, forcing the Mavericks to pivot to other targets.” Hand in hand with missing out again

Some say It was the NBA quietly pivoting to allow more handsy defense that allowed Dallas that late season run. And then PJ Washington turning into Ray Allen for 3 crucial games against Oklahoma. While Giddey was still in the main Oklahoma rotation. I do not entirely disagree but they were still going places, oh and Luka was still young? First finals? How long does it take some guys lol.

HarVeeGee13 said:
Now you can see my vision” (said vision relied on a 1.8% chance of something happening, apparently). Yeah that’s was laughable.
Click to expand...
The whole me against you and the world thing only works when you’re great and end up proving yourself in whatever sport you play, Mj obviously a good example etc
 
So much to pick apart even with it supposedly being updated there’s plenty of reputation rankings on there I think.

Crazy it went from 28 game losing streak and rebuild and get what you can for Cade before he leaves to looking like a legit second round playoff team.

In fact, every man and his dog is probably looking to Detroit to try and pilfer some of their assets
Months ago the Mavs getting ausar thompson for ad3 wouldn’t have been ridiculous but that ship has probably sailed and it would have been smart for anybody 12 months ago to snatch Duran as well.

zach lowe said on his podcast that ad3 is probably only worth ivey and filler now Yikes

And then there’s the Mavs with all their injuries as well as now Lively who’s had issues nearly every season.

Regardless of what he says I think Charlotte should sell high on Lamelo…it’s actually crazy how some of these guys play better without him

Then there’s the biggest fish (possibly) in Markkaken. If Utah fleece another team for him then they deserve another pat on the back.
 
I haven't minded Queen, there's something there. It's a huge swing, but when you're a dumpster fire like the Pelicans...
But dont want the same fears for Queen on the same team is just repeating the trajectory of 2021 Jalen Green Sengun.
If coach Borrego needs more sample size to get info back to the rookies, fine. But the offense has to be initiated by Queen eventually. Fears can do some Jamal Murray if he wants to, but the ball must be with Queen.

Poole, whenever he comes back healthy, would just be similar to Fears.

As for Queen, not quite sure when he'll get grown man strength. Some examples where he gets trucked, like against Butler yesterday for example.

Going back to Flagg, seeing enough improvement. Dallas can't afford to get too much better for the 2026 draft. Trade talks happen for a reason.
Flagg will be impactful very soon. No sense anymore catering to Davis (he had to play the 5, as Flagg's natural most dominant position is 4) or Irving (just sit him for the season since he was signed to a contract extension already). If teams want to trade for either, go for it. Especially if financial relief.
 
R_A said:
So much to pick apart even with it supposedly being updated there’s plenty of reputation rankings on there I think.
Click to expand...
Haha yeah it’s always a weird combination of guys being elevated because certain guys at the Ringer are super duper jazzed about them (Amen Thompson, who’s still *super duper* raw at every aspect of basketball besides defence, running and dunking, is better than guys who are really good offensive engines for their teams? Really?) and then others who just get the benefit of the doubt despite never, ever being fit.

But like, how good is Kawhi now, actually, when fit? He’s a jump shooter who doesn’t get to the line like he used to, he’s not a demon defensively anymore, and he’s never been a particularly good playmaker. He’s way closer to Trey Murphy III than he is to other elite players.

Also don’t love that being out for a season means you don’t exist on these rankings anymore… yet being a guy who’s a guarantee to only play about 50% of the time doesn’t get you dropped. Where’s the consistency?

If anything, to my mind, Tyrese Haliburton’s status as a clear top ten player right now has been reinforced, not eliminated. What looked like this egalitarian offensive machine instantly falls in a heap the second he’s not there, big “Golden State without Steph” energy.
 
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HarVeeGee13 said:
But like, how good is Kawhi now, actually, when fit? He’s a jump shooter who doesn’t get to the line like he used to, he’s not a demon defensively anymore, and he’s never been a particularly good playmaker. He’s way closer to Trey Murphy III than he is to other elite players.
Click to expand...
Probably one of my first examples. There'll be no debate that Kawhi will be looked at way ahead of Harden when all is said and done, deservedly so of course, and despite being critical of Harden for going missing in big playoff games, and padding stats against s**t teams throughout the seasons he was towards the top echelon of players like most non-Rockets fans, I wouldn't have blinked if you swapped their positions.

And before we stop to think about how many players the Thunder have as an observation (few spots give or take where I actually think they should be IMO) Just reminding myself of how much draft capital they own lol, best case scenario (for them) is owning four first round picks.

Utahs is top 8 protected (probably why they will be happy to find a suitor for Markkaken), then will receive the two most favorable picks between Houston (top-four protected), Los Angeles and its own pick. The least-favorable pick of that trio will then go to Washington.

The nightmare for the Clippers ends after 2027, but gee whiz it's why teams selling super high are happy to take the risk (Utah getting 4 firsts for Mitchell/Gobert etc)
 
Dallas in the positive for W/L since firing Nico, even with the injuries it’s not bad, a lot to with Flagg, who is really good at his most natural and dominant 4 spot.

Essentially closed the game for Dallas as Miami threatened. Mid range. Face to face block. Cutting layup. Even after early game foul trouble. Coach Kidd trusted him and he didn't pick up his 4th during the 2nd quarter. Some good stretches in the 4Q.

Biggest story going forward will be Giannis…didn't do it during the offseason when there were more teams capable of doing a trade, might have been better for the Bucks.
Don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach do so little with so much talent at his disposal in Doc Rivers.

Got the best version of Kawhi (who had that unfortunate injury when they made the WCF), missed out on the years when Buttler was there but still had a solid Philly team, again blown playoff lead. And again another talented Bucks team, some injuries last year of course.
I would even argue the only time he maximised his teams were those pre Kawhi/PG Clippers with Blake/CP3 and DJ.
Felt like they were always limited, some bad timing going up against GSW and the Spurs but also coming so agonisingly close after that weird timeout call against the Rockets up by 19 which led led to the lightbulb moment from McHale to bench Harden which ignited their comeback and come from behind 1-3 series win.

And CP3, I’m sure more will come out. Always felt the Rockets gave up on him too quickly…that injury did hurt a bit but the Warriors were dealing with injuries to Steph and Iggy that series but it was still a solid series that one. Year after thunder with him there push the Rockets to 7 games make me feel he had more in the tank…played till 40 I guess heh
 
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