The NBA Thread

Ayton is a guy who's graded compared to what he should be, $8 million is actually a steal for a guy who can give you 30 minutes of good centre play and a double double average. Great deal for the Lakers even if you wouldn't be shocked if Luka and LeBron have stuffed him into the trunk of their car by the end of the season.

He just seems to suck as a dude and has a terrible combination of arrogance and laziness. He wants to be fed in a way where he can get into his bag and be the main man offensively, but he's not prepared to work on his game enough & play in the way that would be necessary for that to be efficient. He wants more than half his shots to be middies with no one laying a hand on him. He can go to that as a fallback option but it's ridiculous that he thinks it should be his main thing.

Even the laziness isn't the end of the world if he's not such a numpty to boot. It would be okay if he didn't want to work that hard on his game and was just prepared to focus on the stuff which is easy for him - being a great defensive anchor & just a roll man on the other end. It's arguably a waste of the talent he has, but if he did that and became a rich man's prime DeAndre Jordan, he'd be very valuable and still worth a big contract. Hell if I was blessed by the basketball gods like he was I'd be happy with that! Getting spoonfed easy lobs by CP3 and now Luka? That sounds great to me! Actually drives me mad that the dude got the CP3 boost, and got the bag off the back of that... and then *****ed about it. I mean come on man.
 
I think any Centre these days that wants to get paid…or in general last in the NBA, should be or has already added the 3 shot to their bow of skills.
Jokic, Embiid, Wemby, Turner. And whether one thinks AD counts. There’s always gonna be a market and being paid for them.
Even look at older guys like Brook Lopez and Al Horford, pushing 40 and still in the NBA because they can shoot the three ball.
Aside from the obvious luck with injuries of course.
Then further down the rung, Sabonis, Sengun.
Or even someone who’s capped at All Star but can shoot the three like Vucevic. Can still carve out a long term role even if they lost their starter spot despite deficiencies in defence and athleticism.

And guys who are very good at their craft of being a 5, like Bam, Rudy, Jarrett Allen who you know are just no threat behind the arc.

In RE: To Ayton who are the opposite are fine because his role will be different the dollars are about right. Even if he’s okay and not fantastic he can opt in and it won’t be a horrible contract.
Waiting around for the market to cool and teams to fill their rosters and payrolls helps too. Then swoop in. Maybe even the FA market was thin too?

just an interesting thought
 
Yeah I really really like Derrick Lively II as a player right now and as a prospect potential wise. Love his defence. Great vertical spacer. I think he’ll become a guy who has a lot of 15/15 games, not just double doubles.

But what’s his peak value if he never learns to shoot? Probably about half what if would be as a good shooter.
 
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Reports that Jonas Valunciunas actually wants a buyout so he can go play in Europe. That'd be a body blow for the Nuggets. Unless they're getting Al Horford instead I'd do whatever it took to prevent that.
 
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Yeah they would have to go back to the market. From my understanding they’d either take another player in return from somewhere and/or be able to go back into the MLE with someone.

But the Kings are the ones who are going to have to figure this one out because they’re the ones trying to offload his salary for two years (to have signed Schroder after) so on their side they’ll still take whatever the option Saric opted in was for like 4.9m.

Then there was talk of playing out the first year and maybe being bought out for the second year? But the kings would have to make that work on their end.

Anyway the buzz has died down a bit from popular RFAs Giddey and Kuminga. I had a hunch the more it dragged out with the Bulls (and the cheapskates that are the Reindstorfs) the more I thought a deal wouldn’t get done after July 1. It’s not as if they would be in a rush either to be fair.

I just don’t see a five year deal happening for a guy who’s averaged 12-14ppg and isn’t a two way guy. Yea his averages with the Bulls were higher after they shipped away their more profilic scorer but it’s bad business go off such small sample sizes during what would have been the dog days for many teams.

I’ve always been high on Buzelis’ upside and I wonder if they’re curious with the talent they’ve acquired through the draft to maybe offer more of a prove it deal and don’t see him apart of their future long term. The Aus media are trying to jam down everyone’s throats he’s the #1 starter and go to on the team when the dollars and sample size don’t really agree with that at all.
 
There seems to be a stalemate with Kuminga as well that doesn’t seem like being resolved. Have heard the Warriors may be keen on adding Horford into the rotation (despite him considering retirement) but have to work out Kuminga first not to be hard capped.

We wait I guess
 
As I say that there could be another Centre on the market with the Bulls and Vucevic possibly agreeing to a buyout with no market for him. Not surprising either at his age but still has something to offer. Or because of the guys they picked up/drafted
Might have to take a backseat on a contending team if it is the Nuggets (as that seems to be what he wants) and half his salary but we’ll see how that pans out too
 
Yeah gonna be interesting. I can never follow what the Bulls front office is doing though… I would have thought there’d be a trade market for Vooch? Am I missing something?
 
Yeah the time to trade would have been when they joined in trading Lavine. $21m cap hit isn’t ridiculous even if they take on a bit of the salary. If they hold onto him maybe they want to hope there are injuries mid season and there is a suitor. Otherwise buy out then to make it cheaper for themselves.
Actually upon checking I’m not sure who’d share the 5 duties without him. Honestly they can hold onto him I guess but let him go to a contender would be nice.
His production hasn’t dropped off much from his peak still capable of getting double double, excellent floor spacer, can shoot the three ball, plenty of post game.
You know you’re not getting him for his defense but contending teams will live with that, even if playoff production is a small drop off.

I did read Chicago said they wanted a first which is a tough one for completely unprotected
 
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Very Bulls to start trying to trade stuff for picks AFTER their assets are at peak value.

Also maybe they shouldn’t have said no to that trade the Hawks made with the Pelicans (been confirmed that the Bulls passed on that to draft Noa Essengue… which is insane).
 
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Very interesting that the Suns are following suit potentially with a Beal buyout. Doesn’t have major issues staying healthy and will contribute elsewhere.
Someone does it then others copy.
But the no trade clause really screwed things over lol.
Difference is Bucks are still trying to maximise Giannis’ window. Suns going nowhere, I don’t think they own their own picks for some time too. Now’s the time to do it I guess…
The big one is also to duck under the aprons, no need for tax if you’re not competitive

Seems like JV will be expected to play for the Nuggets. And so he should.
 
The Suns turning a decision which ruined their next four years into one which ruins their next seven, we hate to see it.

I know it's easy to say from the couch but they have just obviously got themselves in a situation where trading Book is their only option, and the longer it takes for them to do that, the worse things will get. His value is only going to go down.

They've just never compared any course of action to "what if we didn't do that?" in any decision they've made seemingly.

If they just resisted the urge to pay Ayton the huge deal they clearly didn't want to pay him and let him go to the Pacers, they would likely still have a core group of: CP3 who likely would have accepted less money to stay on there, Book, Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson. And then beyond that they could have gotten other stuff either in the draft, or using the picks on smaller transactions with players who fit well. I'm not going to say with a straight face that this is a contender unless they got really lucky, but there's still some good core pieces there + a lot of flexibility. Booker still in the early part of his prime so there would still have been time to find the right extra piece to get them back up there again. They might have even found a good replacement PG and centre over that time, who knows? Like you can imagine maybe De'Aaron Fox, if the Suns had put together a decent centre rotation, adding Phoenix to his list of preferred destinations, not being so hell-bent on San Antonio or bust. Wait for the right deal, not spend everything on the first deal...

As it stands they've got prime Book and??? the two most untradeable contracts in the NBA maybe? No flexibility. Can't do anything.

Fundamentally also I just don't think Book is a franchise cornerstone level of player like the Suns clearly do and I know some fans do. I think someone like Jamal Murray is waaaaaay more of a Book comp than any of those top 5-10 guys. That also plays into my idea that they just move him and take the haul.
 
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Yeah real rookie moves from that fresh new ownership wanting to take advantage of that 2021 finals run.
And tbh if I were a fan I wouldn’t be too mad at trying to bring in Durant. If they don’t, live with it too and keep drafting well.
Even still like you said, no patience.
But the cross over of the CBAs, back to back blow out losses towards the end of playoffs seemed to have force the hand to be ‘reactionary’ (bringing in Beal) at such results rather then make calculated moves. Thinking they were only a one move away from being the elite top teams and contention.

In regards to Book yep. Now is the cycle to do it. Let teams like the Thunder/Nuggets and Rockets ride out their championship windows and by the time the dead money and picks come back or try get some back join the tail end of cycles with Dallas/Spurs maybe Lakers.
I’m not saying any teams who are playoff calibre are odd ones out but also in no man’s land and need a lot of luck Clippers/Memphis.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
Haha yeah I don't want to go the early crow - I hated him in the draft and thought he was gonna bust, and I very often have take lock with these sorts of things, reluctant to give up my bias even though he's clearly been a good NBA player - but yeah I think he's just a role player. A handy, unique one, but way closer to like a Myles Turner with some sliders adjusted than the "white KD + perennial all defensive player" he was hyped as.

And yeah that's a dilemma for them. Being the 2nd draft pick who has panned out as a good player almost guarantees it's gonna be very hard to keep him on significantly less than a max. Look at the bag Jalen Green, who arguably isn't even good, got.

And you could very likely get a huge haul for trading him, and keep churning through draft picks. They'd be able to keep all of Dort, Wallace, Joe & whoever else they like who isn't in the rotation yet, plus they'd be able to keep bringing in new young Cason Wallaces and Lu Dorts. And they looked like contenders without him too. It's been very funny to me listening to pundits talk about how good the Thunder were "when they didn't even have Chet in the lineup" - honestly I think he's at most their fifth best & most important player right now. Dort and Caruso impact winning more. Advanced stats point to Hartenstein being a better player too. But that shows the regard he's held in, and it's inflated by the draft hype.

Shai, JDub & 5-6 very good role players is an every year contender for about 8 years. Shai, JDub, Chet and a handful of average to poor role players? I don't know that that's still a contender.
Click to expand...
Well we've got our answer now: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45700873/chet-holmgren-agrees-rookie-max-extension-thunder

Rookie max for Chet, conditional Rose rule max for JDub. Add the SGA supermax and it could be 90% of the cap locked up in those three by 2026-27.

That means some role players are gonna have to go.

Very interesting to see how long they keep things together.
 
They should be fine for 2025-26, it’s basically a free roll. Season after will be interesting. But draft picks etc some room to move.
Was 99% sure the other two would be give on whatever they could get.
I believe Hartensteins deal has a team option for the last year so they’ll be fine then too.
 
Yeah Sorber is literally like if they made a Hartenstein replacement in a lab (he was a player I really liked for the Spurs too). Just very curious to see whether they can maintain the depth in guard/wing role players now. Previously they had a lot of wiggle room & could keep throwing darts at the board, but it’ll get to the point where they have to hit on a higher percentage of their picks and get guys like Wallace who are ready to be that kind of role player while still on their rookie deals - which is actually really really hard to find.

Trying to fill in the gaps around your championship core (assuming they keep Dort which… well, they have to, right?) is one of those “good problems to have” though.
 
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