Rebuild The Knights

It's basically relying on a very, very small chance. If the U20's side now was right up there again like it was last year, I'd begin to have a little faith in the possibility that the club has had a radical change in the development of talent however, with U20's sitting in 10th this year, it's a little concerning that they're banking the entire future of the club on these kids. With the amount of senior players leaving now and over the next few, there's going to be a considerable gap between generation now and next. I honestly don't believe the Wests Tigers are going to go anywhere anytime soon, I don't think Brooks or Moses are going to live up to their potential because they've been tossed into a side that gets beaten up week in and week out; they've rushed them in, placed the club on their backs and it's stunted their development. If the Board and anyone at the club thinks that it's a good idea are going to incredibly **** up the prospects.

This entire strategy has only one acceptable conclusion and that's a Melbourne like dominance, a Manly like consistency. However, the reality is that we're going to end up looking back on the three/four/five/six -- however long it takes, years and realise that it was a complete waste of time and it will simply put the club much further back that it is now. I'm all for having a focus on junior talent but not if they're going to walk into a damaged side and the club doing nothing to help bridge the gap between the side now and the side they want. I don't know what fantasy they're living in if they think the side can produce adequate performances without any real change to personnel on the field and in the rankings.

It's a disgusting response and of all people, I'm very sad to see that it's from Quayle.
 
Wayne Bennett bought a team in 2012 and what happened. We come last and that same year everyone was complaining why we don't invest our money to our locals. And now is all the opposite
 
Billy said:
All the Brisbane wins.
Saints.
Canterbury claim they are the family club and try to breed their own.
Melbourne are the only obvious exception really, and they have some other team spirit thing happening, to do with being RL people in a non RL area.
Mercenaries very rarely win big games, which is why Brian Smith has never won a grandfinal and Wayne Bennett has never lost one. Smith loves mercenaries, and Bennett knows the value of local players.
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Who won last season? Souths.
Inglis, Sam Burgess, Tom Burgess, George Burgess, Ben Te'o, Lote Tuqiri, Luke Keary, ect

The year before that the Roosters won it.
Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings, Shaun Kenny Dowall, Daniel Tupou, James Maloney etc

The year before that the Storm won it.
Cronk, Slater, Smith, Chambers etc

The year before that the Seaeagles won it.
Brett Stewart, Glenn Stewart, Jamie Lyon, Daly Cherry Evans, Tony Williams, Brent Kite etc

Do you want me to keep going Billy? Lol
 
KnightsArmy said:
Wayne Bennett bought a team in 2012 and what happened. We come last and that same year everyone was complaining why we don't invest our money to our locals. And now is all the opposite
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And the year after we made the grand final qualifier with Gidley,Snowden and McManus on the sideline while Boyd, smith and mullen were staring for the team. If we rely on just our juniors we will not see the finals for a very long time, only twice in the last ten years have we been relevant in 2006 and 2013 the rest of the time we have been making up the numbers. In 2007 we had plenty of locals and how did that go for us, if they club refuses to move on from this fallacy surrounding locals it will condemn itself to irrelevancy. The idea that locals don't win big games is laughable aswell in 97 O'Davis a Queenslander won the clive Churchill medal for us and than in 01 Kennedy was unlucky not to win the CCM.
 
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Left Foot said:
Do you want me to keep going Billy? Lol
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You can do what you like.

I know all our premierships, and most premierships in history, came from sides who had a culture of playing for their community and not for money.

RL is a game where a group of less talented players who are prepared to put their bodies on the line will usually beat a team of talented guys who aren't prepared to risk injury. It happens time after time. We won in 2001 because players like Billy Peden had the games of their lives against a much more talented team, because our guys were playing for their town, family and region, while the Parra guys were playing for money.

We will never win a grandfinal with a team full of mercenaries. We might make the finals and win a lot of games - but once we get to the big game, we wouldn't win.
 
Quinny said:
And the year after we made the grand final qualifier with Gidley,Snowden and McManus on the sideline while Boyd, smith and mullen were staring for the team. If we rely on just our juniors we will not see the finals for a very long time, only twice in the last ten years have we been relevant in 2006 and 2013 the rest of the time we have been making up the numbers. In 2007 we had plenty of locals and how did that go for us, if they club refuses to move in from this fallacy surrounding locals it will condemn itself to irrelevancy. The idea that locals don't win big games is laughable aswell in 97 O'Davis a Queenslander won the clive Churchill medal for us and than in 01 Kennedy was unlucky not to win the CCM.
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Spot on mate. I read thread on here I think by Billy that if we made the grand final, we should drop all our imports like Scott, Gagai, BJ and replace them with the Chanel, Pat etc because they are local and will try harder on the day ???!!!
 
Left Foot said:
Spot on mate. I read thread on here I think by Billy that if we made the grand final, we should drop all our imports like Scott, Gagai, BJ and replace them with the Chanel, Pat etc because they are local and will try harder on the day ???!!!
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reductio ad absurdum
 
Billy said:
You can do what you like.

I know all our premierships, and most premierships in history, came from sides who had a culture of playing for their community and not for money.

RL is a game where a group of less talented players who are prepared to put their bodies on the line will usually beat a team of talented guys who aren't prepared to risk injury. It happens time after time. We won in 2001 because players like Billy Peden had the games of their lives against a much more talented team, because our guys were playing for their town, family and region, while the Parra guys were playing for money.

We will never win a grandfinal with a team full of mercenaries. We might make the finals and win a lot of games - but once we get to the big game, we wouldn't win.
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History shows otherwise.
I point you to this again:
Who won last season? Souths.
Inglis, Sam Burgess, Tom Burgess, George Burgess, Ben Te'o, Lote Tuqiri, Luke Keary, etc

The year before that the Roosters won it.
Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings, Shaun Kenny Dowall, Daniel Tupou, James Maloney etc.

The year before that the Storm won it.
Cronk, Slater, Smith, Chambers etc

The year before that the Seaeagles won it.
Brett Stewart, Glenn Stewart, Jamie Lyon, Daly Cherry Evans, Tony Williams, Brent Kite etc
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Care to explain?
 
Don't worry guys, we have the plan that we showed Mickey Paea that will get us out of this.

James, you're right, Quayle is stuck in the 90s. All this loyalty & we won't be big in the market, our juniors are the way. If we rely on juniors, we'll have an average team that will only ever just make the finals. If we go out & buy a team we will have a soulless team of mercenaries & then what is the point. Why can't the club understand we need a balance. Penrith are doing what we should be doing, they buy a heap of cheap, quality guys outside of the club, with the occasional big name on big money & sprinkle a few quality juniors in there over time, building the side into a really good team.
 
Joshhh said:
James, you're right, Quayle is stuck in the 90s.
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Quayle made a short statement that has been grossly misrepresented here, and you are writing the guy off on the basis of that.
I don't know much about his attitudes because there is very little recent stuff available to judge him on, but I do know that people in high places think he is still very capable.
Your opinion of him seems based on prejudice and next to nothing else.
 
Geez, if Brisbane can't win a comp without locals with the majority of one of the two states that plays rugby league to select from, then something's wrong.

But still: Glenn Lazarus, Chris Johns, Kevin Walters, Anthony Mundine, Gorden Tallis, Michael De Vere, Darren Smith, Kevin Campion, Ben Ikin, Harvey Howard, Luke Priddis, Shane Perry ... some are Queenslanders, some NSWelshman, but none came through the Broncos. Some very big names in there.

Knights two premierships, we imported Robbie O'Davis, Adam MacDougall, Tony Butterfield, Marc Glanville, Lee Jackson, Matt Parsons, Ben Kennedy, Clinton O'Brien and Glenn Grief.

St George Illawarra's premiership in 2010 had plenty too, Clive Churchill winner Daaarius, Jamie Soward, Neville Costigan, Michael Weyman, Beau Scott, Jeremy Smith, Nathan Fien and Jarrod Saffy.

Billy, I can't agree with your post.
 
Gagai, Stockwell and the Sims Brothers have been our best this year and none of them are local. Let's assume that they're committed long term to the club and still have another contract here. That's just four players who could play a role in a premiership winning side. Just four. Compared to Souths, compared to the Roosters, compared to Storm, compared to the Bulldogs, compared to Manly, compared to any premiership winning side since God knows, that's a very small number of imports.

We need to import a new halfback, we need to import a new centre (I really don't think we have any option unless Gagai moves back), we need to import a lock and we need a solid impact bench player. Those are really four changes that would help take the club in the right direction. Premiership? No, most likely not but like I said, at least bridge the gap between this current side and the future of the club so the likes of Lamb, Cogger, Yates etc aren't walking into a disgraceful mess.
 
You have to be kidding yourselves if you think it's all about playing for where your from? Players sign contracts to what suits them individually and for their families and the effort they put in is through the bond they create and feel of fans through fan days and turning up to games.
 
jamesgould said:
Geez, if Brisbane can't win a comp without locals with the majority of one of the two states that plays rugby league to select from, then something's wrong.

But still: Glenn Lazarus, Chris Johns, Kevin Walters, Anthony Mundine, Gorden Tallis, Michael De Vere, Darren Smith, Kevin Campion, Ben Ikin, Harvey Howard, Luke Priddis, Shane Perry ... some are Queenslanders, some NSWelshman, but none came through the Broncos. Some very big names in there.

Knights two premierships, we imported Robbie O'Davis, Adam MacDougall, Tony Butterfield, Marc Glanville, Lee Jackson, Matt Parsons, Ben Kennedy, Clinton O'Brien and Glenn Grief.

St George Illawarra's premiership in 2010 had plenty too, Clive Churchill winner Daaarius, Jamie Soward, Neville Costigan, Michael Weyman, Beau Scott, Jeremy Smith, Nathan Fien and Jarrod Saffy.

Billy, I can't agree with your post.
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I can't agree with your's either.

Brisbane have always had teams that are mostly developed through their system and from their area.

Saints have gone both ways, but they have been most successful when they use a large percentage of local guys.

We are exactly the same, and so are Penrith, Parramatta and any side with a good nursery.

All sides since the 50s have had some imports, and your strawman argument that my opinion is invalid because you can name some imports is absurd.

Just the other day I was listening to the pre amble of the Cronulla game, and Phil Gould made the point that they will never win a premiership with their current squad because all but 2 or 3 are imports, and he went on to say you need a core of 8 or 9 players who have come through your lower grades - then the whole commentary group went on to talk about how Cronulla won both the under 16s and under 18s this year, and say they need to build on those squads.

We are in exactly the same situation. We won the under 18s a few years ago and the under 16s last year, and we also won the minor premiership in under 20s last year and made the grandfinal in NSW cup last year.

Throwing up names of a few imports in sides that won premierships based on a big core of local players is just deliberately missing the point.

Big games are won by people playing for more than money. In a few clubs like Melbourne that is some culture of their own, but in most sides it's local pride, and probably the team where that is most evident and important is Newcastle - where we have always had a local pride and culture that is important, even outside of football, so it is even more crucial to our success, as proven by our two grandfinal wins.
 
Players do what's best for their families and play their hearts out for eachother. No players goes out there to loose on purpose.
 
KnightsArmy said:
You have to be kidding yourselves if you think it's all about playing for where your from? Players sign contracts to what suits them individually and for their families and the effort they put in is through the bond they create and feel of fans through fan days and turning up to games.
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In a normal game during the season that is 100% correct.

In a big game at the end of the season, the side that is playing for more than money will lift, and the side playing for money won't - as seen by us going into both our grandfinals as massive underdogs against red hot sides full of champions, and beating them with pride and career best performances.
 
Billy said:
I can't agree with your's either.

Brisbane have always had teams that are mostly developed through their system and from their area.

Saints have gone both ways, but they have been most successful when they use a large percentage of local guys.

We are exactly the same, and so are Penrith, Parramatta and any side with a good nursery.

All sides since the 50s have had some imports, and your strawman argument that my opinion is invalid because you can name some imports is absurd.

Just the other day I was listening to the pre amble of the Cronulla game, and Phil Gould made the point that they will never win a premiership with their current squad because all but 2 or 3 are imports, and he went on to say you need a core of 8 or 9 players who have come through your lower grades - then the whole commentary group went on to talk about how Cronulla won both the under 16s and under 18s this year, and say they need to build on those squads.

We are in exactly the same situation. We won the under 18s a few years ago and the under 16s last year, and we also won the minor premiership in under 20s last year and made the grandfinal in NSW cup last year.

Throwing up names of a few imports in sides that won premierships based on a big core of local players is just deliberately missing the point.

Big games are won by people playing for more than money. In a few clubs like Melbourne that is some culture of their own, but in most sides it's local pride, and probably the team where that is most evident and important is Newcastle - where we have always had a local pride and culture that is important, even outside of football, so it is even more crucial to our success, as proven by our two grandfinal wins.
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You continue to make outlandish statements but you never back them up.

Here are the facts for you again.

Who won last season? Souths.
Inglis, Sam Burgess, Tom Burgess, George Burgess, Ben Te'o, Lote Tuqiri, Luke Keary, ect

The year before that the Roosters won it.
Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings, Shaun Kenny Dowall, Daniel Tupou, James Maloney etc

The year before that the Storm won it.
Cronk, Slater, Smith, Chambers etc

The year before that the Seaeagles won it.
Brett Stewart, Glenn Stewart, Jamie Lyon, Daly Cherry Evans, Tony Williams, Brent Kite etc
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Where are all these premiership winning teams over the last decade made up of local juniors you speak of? Apart from Brisbane there isn't one is there.
We are all waiting for your list.

 
Billy said:
I can't agree with your's either.

Brisbane have always had teams that are mostly developed through their system and from their area.

Saints have gone both ways, but they have been most successful when they use a large percentage of local guys.

We are exactly the same, and so are Penrith, Parramatta and any side with a good nursery.

All sides since the 50s have had some imports, and your strawman argument that my opinion is invalid because you can name some imports is absurd.

Just the other day I was listening to the pre amble of the Cronulla game, and Phil Gould made the point that they will never win a premiership with their current squad because all but 2 or 3 are imports, and he went on to say you need a core of 8 or 9 players who have come through your lower grades - then the whole commentary group went on to talk about how Cronulla won both the under 16s and under 18s this year, and say they need to build on those squads.

We are in exactly the same situation. We won the under 18s a few years ago and the under 16s last year, and we also won the minor premiership in under 20s last year and made the grandfinal in NSW cup last year.

Throwing up names of a few imports in sides that won premierships based on a big core of local players is just deliberately missing the point.

Big games are won by people playing for more than money. In a few clubs like Melbourne that is some culture of their own, but in most sides it's local pride, and probably the team where that is most evident and important is Newcastle - where we have always had a local pride and culture that is important, even outside of football, so it is even more crucial to our success, as proven by our two grandfinal wins.
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I'm not deliberately missing the point, I disagree with the point. That Dragons side has eight players who were imported, and that's their only grand final win in recent history, and that's what I'd call a standard percentage of recruits.

As Left Foot's list shows, more recent premiers had even more imports.

I think the points you list are either outdated, or maybe a different point. Almost every club is always going to have a decent percentage of local players, because they will select players from their own lower grades and some will make the cut. But show me a team that hasn't had quality imports and has won the comp recently?

It's boneheaded not to go after props and halves when we are so deficient in that area, because in five years time a junior may or may not come through.
 
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