NRL Round 1 - Knights Vs Cowboys - 1:15pm Sunday 1st March (AEDT) - Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas

bremsstrahlung said:
Little bit of a vent, but it annoys me a little at how inflexible we seem to be with Ponga sometimes, and how many things seem to revolve around him, to detriment. (I know it’s mostly speculation with the Holbrook era atm).

He did his absolute best work when he was being a fullback. Not a hybrid halfback. Not first receiver. Just being a fullback. Limiting his touches. Watching. Waiting. Pouncing when the time was right. We saw this and presumably he saw this, and thought, hmmm, if I can score/set up 3 tries with 10 possessions … give me 40 possessions and we will have 12 tries. With that, the quality of those possessions drops and leaves the attack predictable and impotent. Enter Armstrong and Sharpe - who just do fullback things, watch the game, lurk the ruck, support the forwards and pick their moments - success.
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Ding ding ding.

This is exactly why it drives me mad when people think he should get the ball constantly at first receiver, or that the best thing for the attack is for us to just clear the whole left side for him and get out of his way.

I invite anyone who thinks that to go watch his 2023 highlight reel and count how many pairs of hands the ball goes through besides the dummy half before he roars onto the ball and throws the sexy assist pass. It’s usually at least one and just as often as not it’s two.

He plays his best footy with a smart half on his inside who’s in sync with him re: which defenders they’re targeting and how they should vary what they’re doing on his inside to compress the defence and get him at wherever they’re targeting. Yes, sometimes that happens on the short side with him just getting the ball one off the ruck, but more often than not it’s him getting the ball from a half who’s effectively squared up the inside defenders.
 
Joshhh said:
Smith will get a chance. Players getting through a season uninjured is rare. At some point one of the halves will have to miss a game or Sharpe might move around, fullback seems likely at some point! 😅 If Brown and Sharpe aren't killing it, Smith will get a chance eventually and if looks better, Holbrook might change his mind. This is a fresh start for everyone, we don't know how anything works yet.
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Yeah look, I’ve slept on it, and while I still don’t like it, how many times have we seen teams come into a season with a plan they’ve worked on all off season only to find it doesn’t work, and then they change things on the fly. Hell, our best season in yonks was with Hastings & Gamble in the halves after working on a Hastings Ponga halves combo with Miller at fullback all pre-season.

And yeah we’ve just seen Brisbane win a comp despite playing through an injury toll which pretty much always cruels a team’s chance of winning, yes a massive part of that was “hehehe Reece Walsh go brrrr”, but I’d argue the depth and versatility of their spine was a massive part of why they were even in position for him to do that. They had so much cover at 7, 6, 9 and 13 between Ben Hunt, Billy Walters, Paix and Smoothy that they could cover injury absences to their preferred 6 and 7 options all season.

Looking at Holbrook’s interview with this in mind I think I get it a bit more. We’re used to a veeerrrry systematic & rigid coach in AOB, Holbrook might just not be married to anything besides being aware that Brown & Ponga are comfortably our best spine players who should obviously be the first half and fullback named. His thinking might be more about the principles of how he wants the team to play and then he’ll just sort of let the players figure it out as the season goes on.

I know a lot of us are of the mindset that if he picks Fletch at half he has to stick with it until he becomes whatever it is he’s projected to be there, but listening to him speak it kind of sounds more like if it looks gross he’ll just change it.
 
And the halves merry go round begins. Lol. He said for round 1 to get Sharpe in the side, playing him at 6 and Sandon on the bench is the best fit.

Unless there is injuries this will be the side for the next few weeks and see how we go. It will be interesting if we are winning games, and there are injuries in the backline he moves Sharpe or brings in one of the other outside backs we have in reserves, e.g Hunt, and leaves Sandon at 14 to play hooker.
 
One of Smith's biggest deficiencies in his short career has been his defence, we go and stick him in the middle for 30 or 40 minutes, how very knights.
 
frankLauda said:
And the halves merry go round begins. Lol. He said for round 1 to get Sharpe in the side, playing him at 6 and Sandon on the bench is the best fit.

Unless there is injuries this will be the side for the next few weeks and see how we go. It will be interesting if we are winning games, and there are injuries in the backline he moves Sharpe or brings in one of the other outside backs we have in reserves, e.g Hunt, and leaves Sandon at 14 to play hooker.
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I agree with this sentiment, and I do appreciate that Holbrook has seemed to have stuck with his vision since early on when he noted that Sharpe would not play on an edge. I think its a testament to the view of getting your "best footballers on the park", as opposed to the players in their best positions. We have to admit that a halves pairing of Sharpe and Brown with Ponga at the back has the potential to be very exciting. With data from last season put to the side, I'm just trying to reserve judgement until we've seen them play first.

Its possibly semantics but I would've preferred to see Sharpe in the 7 jumper, just to take some pressure off Brown. But maybe that's a card to be left up the sleeve until later in the system.

Smith off the pine also plays into the "best footballers" approach, as I'm sure Graham or Arthurs would be better as out and out hookers off the bench.
 
The idea of “get you best players out there” is incredibly flawed and rarely works to begin with, because in the essence of it, you are forgoing the need of positions and the need of in depth knowledge on said position.

One way to think about it, you may have a really good complete worker, he doesn’t know about things in depth but can do a job when needed from time to time, but a specialist will always be better than that person in the said subject as they know everything about it.

Also I wouldn’t give credit to Holbrook for sticking to this plan as it was leaked this was the idea before Holbrook was even linked to the job, so if anything he is a lackey doing what he is told.

Also we cannot forget past statistical data, in which is suggest Sharpe not being that good all around in the halves, he can run and that’s about as far as it goes, data isn’t everything but you are lying to yourself if you believe it doesn’t play a factor

I love Sharpe I see him as Australia’s number 1 in the future but he will never touch a green and gold jersey (or a blue jersey) as a 6,7 he just isn’t that guy.

To the people suggesting the forum will have a meltdown if we tried what the Broncos did, I think you’re missing a huge point, they could move players around because they had genuine players in those positions. Example being, move hunt to hooker and Mam to five-eighth, well Mam is an actual five-eighth if we did the same it will fall down in the halves, as we would be bringing a fullback in and not another recognised five-eighth like Brisbane did.

Again we will see come round 1 who is right and wrong
 
KPGreatness said:
One way to think about it, you may have a really good complete worker, he doesn’t know about things in depth but can do a job when needed from time to time, but a specialist will always be better than that person in the said subject as they know everything about it.
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The world isn't that black and white mate. Cogger is a specialist 7. Brown is not. I'm glad we have Brown playing 7 on Sunday rather then Cogger.
 
Everyone says Moses is a great Half Back, but most people forget that he started as a fullback then 5/8: off the net:
Mitchell Moses transitioned from five-eighth to halfback (number 7) primarily upon joining the Parramatta Eels in May 2017. While he played as a fullback and five-eighth during his time with the Wests Tigers (2014–2017), he was signed by the Parramatta Eels to immediately take over the halfback position upon his mid-season release in 2017, where he has since cemented his position as a starting half.

Pundits at the time gave Parra heaps about moving him to a position he had never played and that he was an out and out 5/8 and the move would never work. 9 years on and the media don't dare bring that up, that they got it really really wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, Brown can do what Moses did and end up being a great Half. As for him playing on the right, Brown came out and said it has helped his kicking game enormously, which we really need.

My fingers are crossed we do a Canberra and come out from wooden spoon predictions and hit the ground running all over the park, with plenty of tries and off loads and eyes up footy......either that or my liver will suffer whenever we play 🍻🍻
 
Good point, Brown is probably out best option to be an elite 7. But kinds of defeats the purpose of getting Smith. Is he a hooker? Obviously you can look as Smith as a depth signing, or in this case if after round 4 we look like rabble in the halves you make the switch with him having a go in the halves.

As @Owey said the world is not black and white, and can see why they have gone this way. Potentially more upside, long term plan. Then Smith asks for a release. lol
 
Top Knight said:
Everyone says Moses is a great Half Back, but most people forget that he started as a fullback then 5/8: off the net:
Mitchell Moses transitioned from five-eighth to halfback (number 7) primarily upon joining the Parramatta Eels in May 2017. While he played as a fullback and five-eighth during his time with the Wests Tigers (2014–2017), he was signed by the Parramatta Eels to immediately take over the halfback position upon his mid-season release in 2017, where he has since cemented his position as a starting half.

Pundits at the time gave Parra heaps about moving him to a position he had never played and that he was an out and out 5/8 and the move would never work. 9 years on and the media don't dare bring that up, that they got it really really wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, Brown can do what Moses did and end up being a great Half. As for him playing on the right, Brown came out and said it has helped his kicking game enormously, which we really need.

My fingers are crossed we do a Canberra and come out from wooden spoon predictions and hit the ground running all over the park, with plenty of tries and off loads and eyes up footy......either that or my liver will suffer whenever we play 🍻🍻
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Hear me out. Brown to FB, Ponga to half!? Damn it that’s just crazy enough to work maybe.
 
frankLauda said:
Good point, Brown is probably out best option to be an elite 7. But kinds of defeats the purpose of getting Smith. Is he a hooker? Obviously you can look as Smith as a depth signing, or in this case if after round 4 we look like rabble in the halves you make the switch with him having a go in the halves.

As @Owey said the world is not black and white, and can see why they have gone this way. Potentially more upside, long term plan. Then Smith asks for a release. lol
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If Ponga leaves, we at least have Sandon as five eight and Sharpe goes back to fullback.
 
Top Knight said:
Everyone says Moses is a great Half Back, but most people forget that he started as a fullback then 5/8: off the net:
Mitchell Moses transitioned from five-eighth to halfback (number 7) primarily upon joining the Parramatta Eels in May 2017. While he played as a fullback and five-eighth during his time with the Wests Tigers (2014–2017), he was signed by the Parramatta Eels to immediately take over the halfback position upon his mid-season release in 2017, where he has since cemented his position as a starting half.

Pundits at the time gave Parra heaps about moving him to a position he had never played and that he was an out and out 5/8 and the move would never work. 9 years on and the media don't dare bring that up, that they got it really really wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, Brown can do what Moses did and end up being a great Half. As for him playing on the right, Brown came out and said it has helped his kicking game enormously, which we really need.

My fingers are crossed we do a Canberra and come out from wooden spoon predictions and hit the ground running all over the park, with plenty of tries and off loads and eyes up footy......either that or my liver will suffer whenever we play 🍻🍻
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Wild chat.

Moses was an out and out 6 when he made his FG debut as a 19 year old. When Brooks was out Moses filled in at 7.

At 22 yo Moses debuted for Parra at halfback.

Brown is 26 and hasn't ever shown an ability to play halfback and has played the role for Parra many times in Moses' absence.
 
Owey said:
The world isn't that black and white mate. Cogger is a specialist 7. Brown is not. I'm glad we have Brown playing 7 on Sunday rather then Cogger.
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False dichotomy. We arent choosing between Cogger and Brown. We're choosing between Sharpe and Smith over Cogger. Brown is already locked in for a spot in the halves.
 
I feel like I’ve seen this “just get your best footballers out there” story before at this club but I guess that was under AOB and Nathan Brown. The road always ended with the club belatedly realising that getting two halves out there is better than one half and a “good footballer”. But maybe Holbrook is different and his hybrid “good footballer” model will be the one that works. Even though it also didn’t work at his previous head coaching gig when he tried it there. But maybe this time!

On the flip side, whatever the number on Brown’s back, he’ll need to be more of an on field leader than he was at Parra. Playing with Sharpe wearing #7 gives him no outs, he has to play with a dominant mindset. And for Sharpe to be a great fullback in the future he needs to become a better ball player and he’ll in theory be forced into more of those reps at 6. So maybe it’ll be better for the team in the long run whether or not it works.
 
Top Knight said:
Everyone says Moses is a great Half Back, but most people forget that he started as a fullback then 5/8: off the net:
Mitchell Moses transitioned from five-eighth to halfback (number 7) primarily upon joining the Parramatta Eels in May 2017. While he played as a fullback and five-eighth during his time with the Wests Tigers (2014–2017), he was signed by the Parramatta Eels to immediately take over the halfback position upon his mid-season release in 2017, where he has since cemented his position as a starting half.

Pundits at the time gave Parra heaps about moving him to a position he had never played and that he was an out and out 5/8 and the move would never work. 9 years on and the media don't dare bring that up, that they got it really really wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, Brown can do what Moses did and end up being a great Half. As for him playing on the right, Brown came out and said it has helped his kicking game enormously, which we really need.

My fingers are crossed we do a Canberra and come out from wooden spoon predictions and hit the ground running all over the park, with plenty of tries and off loads and eyes up footy......either that or my liver will suffer whenever we play 🍻🍻
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I agree, but I will be really happy if they can hold the ball and finish sets at 80-90 percent.
We can dare to dream after that.
 
Les Misérables said:
Wild chat.

Moses was an out and out 6 when he made his FG debut as a 19 year old. When Brooks was out Moses filled in at 7.

At 22 yo Moses debuted for Parra at halfback.

Brown is 26 and hasn't ever shown an ability to play halfback and has played the role for Parra many times in Moses' absence.
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I remember a number of years when Moses started as the half back at Parra, the Eels had Joey there for several seasons working with Moses and Brown.
Maybe it’s time to ask Joey to come back into the fold and do a job with Brown at 7 and Sharpe at 6?
It worked at the Eels.
 
We definitely have an issue with ball control and completion rate. Happened throughout last year. I’m not confident we will get any reprieve from that soon with all our new combinations. But, from memory most of the dropped ball errors was from our younger guys not in the top 17 in the trials.
 
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