Phoenix Crossland discussion

[Grandpa Joe]

He gets 4 games. Stupid as Radleys tackle on Friday night was objectively just at bad, but also could have been worse I guess

I think the fact we went hat in hand stopped it becoming a 6-8 week suspension and luckily Phoenix has a saintly reputation in the NRL.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

It’s very disappointing for Pheonix, I hope he gets the support he needs.

FFS he hasn't got cancer let's not be overly dramatic.

 

[MullosLefttoRight]

I wouldn't underestimate the esteem he's held in in the Kiwis set-up.

Fair, Phoenix is someone every player would want as a teammate and every coach would want in their side.

Despite all his off-field misgivings and injury history, Brandon Smith in a Kiwis jersey has always been an "Origin Gagai"-esque proposition. With some decent club form under his belt and looking his fittest in years I think it would be difficult for Phoenix to overtake him after missing the group stages.

JMK doesn't have the runs on the board in a Kiwis jersey but has just played a key role in taking the Phins to the Top 4 and a Prelim - missing a month+ of footy has to leave Crossland disadvantaged in this head-to-head as well, especially if the Kiwis were to beat the Kangaroos in the group stage - it would be a massive call to drop Phoenix into a key role unless forced to do so by injury.

I'm not sure whether it's a 23 or a 24 man squad - after a very quick brainstorm I reckon they might take him as a backup to the above, if it's 23 he might be in trouble:

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Ronaldo Mulitalo (Left)
3. Casey McLean (Left)
4. Matthew Timoko (Right)
5. Jamayne Isaako (Right)
6. Kodi Nikorima
7. Jahrome Hughes
8. Moses Leota
9. Jeremy Marshall-King
10. James Fisher-Harris
11. Isaiah Papali'i
12. Briton Nikora
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Brandon Smith
15. Naufahu Whyte
16. Erin Clark
17. Xavier Willison
18. Te Maire Martin
19. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad

20. Keano Kini
21. Phoenix Crossland
22. Jack Williams
23. Leo Thompson
24. Scott Sorensen/Jordan Riki (Manuleleua/Foketi picked ahead of both but probably opt for Samoa/Tonga)

Realistically, one of those 5 reserves (#20-24) probably needs to cover the outside backs for squad balance, so Phoenix's suspension could be fatal in that respect - I'm assuming DWZ plays for Tonga otherwise I'd have him straight into the squad - Kris/Karapani aren't as enticing.

 

[OnTilt]

I think Youngs one did cause an injury. But Frizell also got a 1 game suspension the same game for a very innocuous one didn't he.

Was that on Koula? Pretty sure it ended his season.

 

[waynesworld]

FFS he hasn't got cancer let's not be overly dramatic.

Idk he is getting death threats for an accidental tackle and missing the best moment of his career. We’re knights fan on a forum, we can feel sorry for a player.

 

[Lefty]

FFS he hasn't got cancer let's not be overly dramatic.

Really. He feels guilty that Cleary has suffered a horrible injury. He nearly ended our premiership campaign this year, only one of the greatest wins in Knights’ history saved us. He is missing the biggest game of his life and he feels he has let his teammates and the fans down.

 

[jamesgould]

Fair, Phoenix is someone every player would want as a teammate and every coach would want in their side.

Despite all his off-field misgivings and injury history, Brandon Smith in a Kiwis jersey has always been an "Origin Gagai"-esque proposition. With some decent club form under his belt and looking his fittest in years I think it would be difficult for Phoenix to overtake him after missing the group stages.

JMK doesn't have the runs on the board in a Kiwis jersey but has just played a key role in taking the Phins to the Top 4 and a Prelim - missing a month+ of footy has to leave Crossland disadvantaged in this head-to-head as well, especially if the Kiwis were to beat the Kangaroos in the group stage - it would be a massive call to drop Phoenix into a key role unless forced to do so by injury.

I'm not sure whether it's a 23 or a 24 man squad - after a very quick brainstorm I reckon they might take him as a backup to the above, if it's 23 he might be in trouble:

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Ronaldo Mulitalo (Left)
3. Casey McLean (Left)
4. Matthew Timoko (Right)
5. Jamayne Isaako (Right)
6. Kodi Nikorima
7. Jahrome Hughes
8. Moses Leota
9. Jeremy Marshall-King
10. James Fisher-Harris
11. Isaiah Papali'i
12. Briton Nikora
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Brandon Smith
15. Naufahu Whyte
16. Erin Clark
17. Xavier Willison
18. Te Maire Martin
19. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad

20. Keano Kini
21. Phoenix Crossland
22. Jack Williams
23. Leo Thompson
24. Scott Sorensen/Jordan Riki (Manuleleua/Foketi picked ahead of both but probably opt for Samoa/Tonga)

Realistically, one of those 5 reserves (#20-24) probably needs to cover the outside backs for squad balance, so Phoenix's suspension could be fatal in that respect - I'm assuming DWZ plays for Tonga otherwise I'd have him straight into the squad - Kris/Karapani aren't as enticing.

Brandon Smith has been stood down from Kiwis games for misbehaviour in squad, and due to lack of fitness let through a ridiculously easy try under the posts at the semi-finals in the 2022 World Cup, in a game that was decided by two. Hasn't played for NZ since. I think he might have the opposite reputation to Phoenix.

Accept there's the question of a bench hooker for the first three games, though.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

Really. He feels guilty that Cleary has suffered a horrible injury. He nearly ended our premiership campaign this year, only one of the greatest wins in Knights’ history saved us. He is missing the biggest game of his life and he feels he has let his teammates and the fans down.

Injuries are a part of sport, yes it was horrible, but get him the support he needs is a laughable overreaction.

The way we carry on over sports people's mental health it's like they are more fragile than a champagne glass.

 

[Tim]

Was that on Koula? Pretty sure it ended his season.

Yeah Koula, and it did his ankle. Season ended for him. Dom got 10mins and 1 game suspension.

And like Crosslands one, it was only noticed on the replays.

 

[Treadly]

I was trying to think if the one Dom did in Manly resulted in any sort of injury? I don't think it did? I might be wrong? He still copped a week.

It's a fine line when you send someone off for a hip drop when you never have in the past when it's resulted in a serious injury...That's where fans get frustrated.

Oh agree. Sin bin and 4 weeks. Im ok with the suspension, not the send off.

 

[Brad tighe]

DCE looked very nervous in his interview. I get the feeling the chooks wanted Penrith instead of us

 

[bremsstrahlung]

Injuries are a part of sport, yes it was horrible, but get him the support he needs is a laughable overreaction.

The way we carry on over sports people's mental health it's like they are more fragile than a champagne glass.

Yeh, injuries are part of the game, things do happen.

I don’t think it’s an overreaction to say we hope he’s well supported. Not saying he needs to go get counselling and be committed to a mental health ward. It can be isolating when you’re out injured or suspended - I imagine J Saf/Mooney/Brown all feel pretty gutted they aren't part of these games.

But it’s clear, he feels horrible. The comments post hearing point to the character he is - his reaction at half time as well - he looked gutted. His phone calls to Cleary and family show he is a compassionate guy, and he’s obviously feeling horrible for potentially ending a career (that’s hyperbole, but there were the same doubts with Lucas too). He’s said he wants to do all he can to help the team prepare. His mindset is so team first and he feels like he’s let the team and supporters down by not being there on GF day. Not to mention personally, it would have been a career highlight to walk out there on GF day. “This is meant to be one of the best weeks of my life”.

I’m sure the boys will get around him, and hopefully he can enjoy the rest of the week and get amongst it.

He’s had almost a breakout season (probably last year), but he’s been consistent and one of our best this year. We wouldn't be where we are without him.

Paul Harragon, one of the toughest blokes to pull on a red n blue jersey, is also one of the nicest. His teammates talk about a period of 2-3 years of his career where he held back. He had caused a few injuries with his running and power and tackles. He felt that horrible that he was injuring players.

 

[bremsstrahlung]

far out, I’m starting to think I’m the one with a cooked take on Crossland with a few of the people agreeing…

Paul Gallen has commented on the discrepancy with Radley.

Throw in Willie Mason too.

Not the people I usually want to have the same opinion as.

 

[Die Hard]

far out, I’m starting to think I’m the one with a cooked take on Crossland with a few of the people agreeing…

Paul Gallen has commented on the discrepancy with Radley.

Throw in Willie Mason too.

Not the people I usually want to have the same opinion as.

The truth is generally seen most agreeably. Hardly anyone is agreeing with the judiciary and refereeing decision around it.

 

[Newygirl]

far out, I’m starting to think I’m the one with a cooked take on Crossland with a few of the people agreeing…

Paul Gallen has commented on the discrepancy with Radley.

Throw in Willie Mason too.

Not the people I usually want to have the same opinion as.

I think it’s the exception to agree with them here because former players generally tend to argue that the injury sustained shouldn’t affect the punishment (even though it generally does)

Plus, former players don’t like to see people miss Grand Finals either

It’s so unlucky for Phoenix. He’s made more tackles than anyone this year and one just goes horribly wrong, completely accidentally.

It’s no like he’s a dirty player or even a reckless one like Radley who is always doing stupid ****.

So are we to assume, there will be always be send offs from now on for hip drops?

 

[Defence wins games]

I’m not super aware of the various implications of pleading guilty vs not guilty.
My understanding would be you fight:
a) if it’s a hip drop
Then b) how bad it was
Then c) negotiate the suspension

But maybe there’s some goodwill for not wasting their time



Also, just quietly, Lucas breaks his leg when the Roosters player pins it on the ground with his body, after tackling high and sliding low….there is no rotation/swing though.

It was a terrible accident. Nathan Cleary was badly injured, and he has supported Crossland since the injury.
I just can’t get past how so many other hip drop tackles have happened this year and have resulted in the huge spectrum of penalties applied by the NRL. All the evidence points to which club is involved, who the tackler was and who the victim was as their first priority.
Make of this what you will, but the NRL’s consistent application of penalties is about as far away from consistent(and sometimes fair) as is possible. In fact, I would call their inconsistency of punishments as bodgy at best.
It is an unforeseen outcome of PVL ball which nobody has got even close to solving. At times the powers that be in the NRL are just making it all up as they go along and are playing from the “failure to plan means you are planning to fail” playbook.
What happened to Nathan Cleary last weekend was an accident and the NRL has acted like a kangaroo court if their “4 game suspension” is intended to fix the hip drop tackle issue. Much greater minds than exist at NRL headquarters will be needed to solve the current hip drop dilemma as their inconsistent, haphazardly applied punitive efforts won’t solve anything, and if allowed to continue, will still be an issue in 2027 and beyond.

 

[Defence wins games]

I think it’s the exception to agree with them here because former players generally tend to argue that the injury sustained shouldn’t affect the punishment (even though it generally does)

Plus, former players don’t like to see people miss Grand Finals either

It’s so unlucky for Phoenix. He’s made more tackles than anyone this year and one just goes horribly wrong, completely accidentally.

It’s no like he’s a dirty player or even a reckless one like Radley who is always doing stupid ****.

So are we to assume, there will be always be send offs from now on for hip drops?

That has to be the new standard for hip drop tackles going forward.
The NRL commission need to research approaches to avoid hip drop tackles and take some advice from people with expertise in this area. At the moment the NRL don’t know what they don’t know and have used a haphazard, inconsistent punitive approach which simply isn’t working.

 

[Defence wins games]

I don’t know if it’s written in the rules but there is no doubt the resulting injury plays a massive part in determining the outcome of the penalty. Is that right or wrong?

Victory Radlys, and most hip drops for that matter are the same tackle with varying degrees of how bad they are.

Radleys was the same if not as bad as Crossland’s but because Herbie gets up to play, it’s penalty, on report and then a fine. Is that ok?

If Cleary doesn’t get severely injured, it more than likely would have been the same outcome.

Initially I thought that’s **** Crossy gets 4 weeks, he gets off. But what if it was the other way round?

Like Dylan Lucas you mean?