Phoenix Crossland discussion

Alex said:
Apparently people have been horribly attacking Crossland on his Instagram today. Some sending him threats and some even wishing that he's crippled from the neck down... Absolutely pathetic.
Click to expand...
This kind of crap ****s me to tears. I don’t know him personally but the few times iv met Phoenix you can tell he doesn’t have a bad bone in his body. There was no malice in the tackle at all just an unfortunate accident where a few factors fell together resulting in the severity of the injury. Hopefully he knows he has the full support of the red and blue army ❤️💙❤️💙
 
Alex said:
Apparently people have been horribly attacking Crossland on his Instagram today. Some sending him threats and some even wishing that he's crippled from the neck down... Absolutely pathetic.
Click to expand...
Some absolute bellends commenting on his Instagram even during the game reading some of the comments there.

I just hope the club are getting around Phoenix.
 
Honestly **** all of the extra crap that comes with it hey. I don’t think any player goes out of their way to do that, especially Crossland who is all heart in the game and body on the line. I said it last week that without Phoenix there’s no chance in hell we even make the 8 such is his impact with dedication and defence.

Check this out.
IMG_8258.jpeg


The amount of brain dead special people who have been saying things like, “he’s got a history” or “he targets people to hurt them” Honestly, if you believe that than their parents could have avoided some terrible breeding with protection and saved us all the hassle. 2 injuries in almost 4300 tackles is phenomenal and I challenge anyone to hit 2% of those numbers and not screw it up far more often if they don’t destroy themselves first. He’s a professional tackler, even the great Don Bradman got out for a duck 10 times I bet you didn’t know. They are only human and any money he is kicking his own arse the hardest.

I really feel for the guy, shame on the scum who would take the time to destroy someone like that. It’s cowardly and pathetic.
 
I don’t think phoenix will be allowed to play the grand final. Not particularly worried about how long the ban is. Will mean he won’t get injured playing for kiwis and will give graham a bit of a run at starting 9 for the first few rounds of next season. Not sure what we plan on doing in the halves for round 1 but we do have some coverage I.e Smith at 14 or some reps into someone like Arthur.
 
The Artist Formerly Known as Aku'd said:
That’s all class as the Cleary’s are…..now time to say it in front of the judiciary tomorrow at 6pm.
Click to expand...
Also the only team that's given us any credit whatsoever in the press conference after the game.

Very classy move from Nathan. Great to see his recovery looks to have started well, too.

Just a shame these nutters are such a big part of social media, and general existence, these days.
 
danknights said:
Just replay victor Radleys for the fine and the multiple others that went un penalized. Izzy katoa got done in that same game aswell. There would be a motza video to choose from and send Ivan Cleary as ya man.
Click to expand...
The part that amuses me a little…
Gee sees the Radley tackle and calls the hip drop on real time - it’s obvious. Herbie gets up and limps away. Report. It was obvious enough to call live. It was pretty much a textbook hip drop.

Sutton (and everybody else) didn’t see anything wrong with the tackle live. Nobody went to the ref to complain. Sutton was ready for the play the ball. Obviously the injury is horrible. It’s only when a replay shows Phoenix on the leg, that we say, yep, hip drop - send him off due to the injury - because it was EXTREME RISK.

Ones a fine and the perpetrator can have a little joke in the media about organising a payment plan with Petey, one’s going to probably be 4+ weeks and copping death threats.

The NRL are making their own bed with their inconsistencies.

So next year, you’re going to have coaches wondering why players aren’t sent off for hip drops, and those that are suspended are going to be asking why they don’t get a fine.

I think a send off should be intentional foul play. Think Sualii hit on Walsh. Think Saifiti. Ponga even. The intent is there to use extreme force and if you do that, get it wrong in an illegal tackle - then yeh, send off is fair.
- intent - hard to know what players are thinking. And there’s never an intention to injure. But I think Radley does the textbook, grab, loses his feet and swings and falls with his weight on the back of the leg.

I’m still filthy at Suttons descriptors
- definite action to twist (Ponga - I don’t know about that)
- comes down on the leg with weight (can’t make out what Ponga said - “mate..”?
- there’s extreme risk of serious injury

I may well have my red n blue glasses on, or maybe just my lack of understanding of “hip drops”.
Phoenix appears to grab him high from the side.
Cleary is trying to power through to score a try.
In the wet, against a powerful athlete, trying to get away, Phoenix slips down, we see players break tackles all the time.
By this point, his legs and hip is in the ground. And if it’s Crossland only in the tackle, or Manulelua comes from the same side as Crossland, I think Cleary just falls over and it looks like a conventional tackle.
I think it’s Manulelua coming from the opposite angle that stops Cleary’s body being able to ‘flex” or go with the momentum, and sends it the opposite way.

I don’t know if it’s a good thing or not that I'm on a similar page to Willie Mason… but he gives a pretty decent explanation on how quick things happen. Mason basically says the only way Phoenix avoids this result, is if he lets go and lets Cleary score.

Hip Drop is a horrible tackle that needs to be taken out of the game. But we need to discern the difference between intentional hip drops - and incidental contact with the legs while a tackle is being completed.

I can tackle somebody and be holding them upright at just below the knees, and somebody can steam jn from the opposite side, tackle them above the knee (not a cannon ball), and cause traumatic injury to the knees due to opposing forces. Injuries can happen at any point.

I don’t know how players make tackles anymore if a player is past them. If I’m chasing somebody, do I dive and try and catch their torso (in the process my body lands on the back of their legs), or do I try and tackle Best like McLean did and let him through.

Idk, maybe I’m being unreasonable because I feel bad for Phoenix. I genuinely think they could find numerous examples of similar tackles in every game with players trying to bring players down- just without the injury. And id maybe have a different view if it was Fletcher Sharpe’s leg that was broken.

Anyway, good to see surgery done, he’s had the best possible care and in good spirits. I imagine he will make a speedy recovery. It all comes down to infection risk now. And they’ll be pumping him with antibiotics. I do commend him and Ivan on their maturity and class. I do have a bit of a soft spot and respect for Penrith, I think they go about their business in a professional way.
 
bremsstrahlung said:
The part that amuses me a little…
Gee sees the Radley tackle and calls the hip drop on real time - it’s obvious. Herbie gets up and limps away. Report. It was obvious enough to call live. It was pretty much a textbook hip drop.

Sutton (and everybody else) didn’t see anything wrong with the tackle live. Nobody went to the ref to complain. Sutton was ready for the play the ball. Obviously the injury is horrible. It’s only when a replay shows Phoenix on the leg, that we say, yep, hip drop - send him off due to the injury - because it was EXTREME RISK.

Ones a fine and the perpetrator can have a little joke in the media about organising a payment plan with Petey, one’s going to probably be 4+ weeks and copping death threats.

The NRL are making their own bed with their inconsistencies.

So next year, you’re going to have coaches wondering why players aren’t sent off for hip drops, and those that are suspended are going to be asking why they don’t get a fine.

I think a send off should be intentional foul play. Think Sualii hit on Walsh. Think Saifiti. Ponga even. The intent is there to use extreme force and if you do that, get it wrong in an illegal tackle - then yeh, send off is fair.
- intent - hard to know what players are thinking. And there’s never an intention to injure. But I think Radley does the textbook, grab, loses his feet and swings and falls with his weight on the back of the leg.

I’m still filthy at Suttons descriptors
- definite action to twist (Ponga - I don’t know about that)
- comes down on the leg with weight (can’t make out what Ponga said - “mate..”?
- there’s extreme risk of serious injury

I may well have my red n blue glasses on, or maybe just my lack of understanding of “hip drops”.
Phoenix appears to grab him high from the side.
Cleary is trying to power through to score a try.
In the wet, against a powerful athlete, trying to get away, Phoenix slips down, we see players break tackles all the time.
By this point, his legs and hip is in the ground. And if it’s Crossland only in the tackle, or Manulelua comes from the same side as Crossland, I think Cleary just falls over and it looks like a conventional tackle.
I think it’s Manulelua coming from the opposite angle that stops Cleary’s body being able to ‘flex” or go with the momentum, and sends it the opposite way.

I don’t know if it’s a good thing or not that I'm on a similar page to Willie Mason… but he gives a pretty decent explanation on how quick things happen. Mason basically says the only way Phoenix avoids this result, is if he lets go and lets Cleary score.

Hip Drop is a horrible tackle that needs to be taken out of the game. But we need to discern the difference between intentional hip drops - and incidental contact with the legs while a tackle is being completed.

I can tackle somebody and be holding them upright at just below the knees, and somebody can steam jn from the opposite side, tackle them above the knee (not a cannon ball), and cause traumatic injury to the knees due to opposing forces. Injuries can happen at any point.

I don’t know how players make tackles anymore if a player is past them. If I’m chasing somebody, do I dive and try and catch their torso (in the process my body lands on the back of their legs), or do I try and tackle Best like McLean did and let him through.

Idk, maybe I’m being unreasonable because I feel bad for Phoenix. I genuinely think they could find numerous examples of similar tackles in every game with players trying to bring players down- just without the injury. And id maybe have a different view if it was Fletcher Sharpe’s leg that was broken.

Anyway, good to see surgery done, he’s had the best possible care and in good spirits. I imagine he will make a speedy recovery. It all comes down to infection risk now. And they’ll be pumping him with antibiotics. I do commend him and Ivan on their maturity and class. I do have a bit of a soft spot and respect for Penrith, I think they go about their business in a professional way.
Click to expand...
You are spot on as I see it. By very definition the Crossland tackle was not a hip drop. The Radley one was.

Billy Slater had an interesting take on it last night as well. The nrl have undertaken in the last couple of years to penalise any contact on a ball player after he has passed the ball. Even if it is split second. He said a couple of years ago Crossland would have been hitting Cleary with a normal force tackle but would have been risking a penalty by doing so on sunday. So as the inside (pressure) defender, he becomes passive in intent expecting Cleary to pass the ball. When Cleary dummies, he then has to affect a softer tackle with no momentum. This is the reason Cleary powers through the initial hit and ends up in the tackle that he does. There needs to be clear clarification on both those tackles moving forward. Slater seemed to think a split second late, legal tackle on the playmaker is a lot safer then the passive tackle. Or maybe we outlaw the dummy?
 
It just doesn’t make any sense at all that punishments appear to be dictated by outcomes of tackles. That’s the logic of tort law, civil cases. The point of a lawsuit for a civil wrong is to, as much as possible, return the wronged party to a pre-tort position. Eg if via your negligence or intentional violence you seriously injure someone in a way that affects their life, their family, their earning capacity, etc, any compensation you end up paying to them is dictated by a combination of estimated lost earnings + a sum for the distress caused.

But the NRL judiciary should surely operate more like a criminal court right, when it comes to punishments? The point is to deter foul play, a suspension has nothing to do with compensating the other player or team - your club can’t do anything to put Nathan Cleary back on the field for them. If you really want to stamp out the hip drop, you need to punish based on how intentionally or recklessly the player does a tackle that fits the definition of a hip drop. If punishments are based on the eggshell skull rule, players don’t think, “I can’t under any circumstances do a hip drop,” they’ll subconsciously know that tackle is an incredibly effective way to bring a player down when you need to and they’ll know that it *usually* doesn’t result in a serious injury. So the split second mental calculus with that tackle is “I need to stop the try and there *probably* won’t be an injury”, not “oh I can’t do that, I’ll get sin binned/sent off”. And that’s how arguably the dirtiest player in the game Victor Radley ends up doing, how many this year? How many absolutely textbook hip drops? Five?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top