Sandon Smith discussion

On the first one there wasn't much time to think once he gathered it, and it was well defended. The second one was a phenomenal defensive play from Sasagi but Smith should've scored from that position, or gotten the ball to Sharpe. That was a bomb.

Love that even when Sharpe makes a play like that it's still apparently Smith behind it, though. I reckon Smith also told him to grubber through for Frizell in the same way, and you're never going to guess who was the real brains behind him chipping it over for Marzhew's try. Couldn't possibly be that the kid with no playmaking skills and no hope of ever developing any simply looked up and saw an out of position fullback, and summed up the situation perfectly every time (save for a goal post pad).
 
frankLauda said:
I think question has been asked. If/when we are at full strength in the spine what do we do with Smith? 14 comes on at hooker? I’m really liking what Harrison Graghem is bringing. I’m sure Smith could be a crafty 9 but I am concerned about his defence.
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I just hope we actually get to experience having this problem. Starting to wonder if we’ll ever see a full strength Knights side for an entire game

I’m really keen to see what a full strength side could actually do now they have a coach who understands what his players strengths are and has them play accordingly.

6 tries to 2 yesterday, makes you wonder what the scoreline could’ve been with KP, Brown and a fully fit Sharpe
 
Let’s be real, the lineup goes straight back to how it was in round 1. Sharpe 6, Brown 7. Tough for Sandon but it’s the only feasible option. Im not sure how Sandon will go defending in the middle though.

Sharpe is still injury affected, but showing signs of returning to full form soon. He himself said he’s feeling better each week and will get better as a result.
 
mullenmagic said:
On the first one there wasn't much time to think once he gathered it, and it was well defended. The second one was a phenomenal defensive play from Sasagi but Smith should've scored from that position, or gotten the ball to Sharpe. That was a bomb.

Love that even when Sharpe makes a play like that it's still apparently Smith behind it, though. I reckon Smith also told him to grubber through for Frizell in the same way, and you're never going to guess who was the real brains behind him chipping it over for Marzhew's try. Couldn't possibly be that the kid with no playmaking skills and no hope of ever developing any simply looked up and saw an out of position fullback, and summed up the situation perfectly every time (save for a goal post pad).
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No one else mentioned the Friz or Marz one mate, or said anything bad about Sharpe here. You can see for yourself that Sandon called for the kick, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t also a really good kick by Fletch, or a good sign that his teammate trusts his kicking game enough to call for the kick from him. I’m sure the figment of your imagination you’re arguing with here feels thoroughly chastened though.
 
That try just after half time was one of the best bits of halfback play I've seen from a Knight since the 8th was here. Winger marking Young goes to the bin. First set after the binning is the hardest to sort out your line to defend, I really hoped the Knights would take advantage. Under Cogger/Hastings we have been terrible picking over opposition weakness. That first set after the bin we went left to open up the field and hit back right. Saunders came up with a great up and in tackle on Hunt to cut the ball off. When they went back to the open to Smith and he looked to his left, I thought a chance was gone. For him to cut back and test that right side again was just so smart.
 
Yeah I’m not about to accuse him of executing perfectly every time but he has such a strong mix of both reactive vision and proactive playmaking.

To be clear: Do I think Sandon is a better player than Fletcher Sharpe? No I don’t.

Do I think you could play Sandon somewhere else and extract even 60% of the same value out of him? Also no, I think he’s a 7. His best footy comes from creating opportunities for others.

Do I think you could play Fletcher somewhere else and extract 90%+ of the same value out of him? Yes, I do. Example: I think if he’s at right centre instead of Gags when we have some go forward, a lot of time & space and the mismatch of Sanders in front of him filling in at centre, Sharpe would have bamboozled him the same way Gags did and created a couple of tries for us. You’d still have him chasing kicks, running out of dummy half in yardage, putting in some opportunistic short kicks, etc. In fact he may be able to be more impactful with his running game because he’s not operating out in front of shape in very small pockets of space.

It’s all a balancing act though and absolutely there’s stuff Sharpe can do in the halves that Sandon can’t, due to Sharpe being a better athlete & more dangerous runner. Also a much better defender. It’s all about what you most prioritise and are happiest to give up.
 
Sandon isn’t getting dropped out of first grade. He’s basically guaranteed a jersey, just not necessarily one with a single digit on the back.

The coach has always said his first choice playmakers are Phoenix, Fletcher, Dylan, Kalyn & Sandon. Sandon was likely going to come on at dummy half in game 1, or maybe in the kind of role Cogger is playing at Penrith this year as an extra playmaker (calling it a “bench lock” role seems wrong these days because teams who use a player like that have been pulling an edge forward sometimes, he may have been coming on for McEwen). With everyone fit though my guess is Sandon will play 30-50 minutes of hooker in jersey 14.

There have also been comments about them seeing Fletcher Sharpe as a guy who can play anywhere 1-7 so I still don’t think we can rule out that he’ll be trusted to replace Bradman or Dane if we’re at full strength otherwise.
 
Just had a flick through and I might be widely in the minority here but I think Sandon has the best kicking game in this club - He might not be as talented as Sharpe or Brown but two 6's playing together i think when it gets to tactical kicks and in matches where there will be a grinding type environment we might actually struggle - Is it really worth playing Brown out of position on 1.3 million a year on a limb hopng he develops a half-back style game? I know Sharpe is a freak also but i think we need calm and be sensible here.

We just beat the Minor Premiers of last year with Sandon at 7, and have won 2 straight games - We've had wins earlier but this was probably our best win so far.

I would at the very minimal hold off moving Sandon until Ponga gets back and minotor how we go until then but personally i think he's our guy.
 
A long kicking game can make or break you. Sandon absolutely struggles getting a ball past the 30. He needs to work on punting 3 feet over arms then slowly moving the ball to an upright position so his kicking leg gets through the impact point stronger.
 
NightandDay said:
Just had a flick through and I might be widely in the minority here but I think Sandon has the best kicking game in this club - He might not be as talented as Sharpe or Brown but two 6's playing together i think when it gets to tactical kicks and in matches where there will be a grinding type environment we might actually struggle - Is it really worth playing Brown out of position on 1.3 million a year on a limb hopng he develops a half-back style game? I know Sharpe is a freak also but i think we need calm and be sensible here.

We just beat the Minor Premiers of last year with Sandon at 7, and have won 2 straight games - We've had wins earlier but this was probably our best win so far.

I would at the very minimal hold off moving Sandon until Ponga gets back and minotor how we go until then but personally i think he's our guy.
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He’s got a pop gun boot but i think his short kicking game is really nice, particularly along the ground, and his tactical choices with the boot are quite good.

I think him, Kalyn & Dylan (and Phoenix) sharing the kicking looked good in the limited time we saw it and should continue to work well, it’s tough for the fullback to stay in good position and cover all the angles when the kick could come from everyone.
 
NightandDay said:
Is it really worth playing Brown out of position on 1.3 million a year on a limb hopng he develops a half-back style game?
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Ponga is our halfback, not Brown. He isn’t being asked to play a “halfback style game”. He may be wearing 7, but he’s playing his normal role as a running five eight, with a few more kicks (of which he has looked good at).
 
mullenmagic said:
On the first one there wasn't much time to think once he gathered it, and it was well defended. The second one was a phenomenal defensive play from Sasagi but Smith should've scored from that position, or gotten the ball to Sharpe. That was a bomb.

Love that even when Sharpe makes a play like that it's still apparently Smith behind it, though. I reckon Smith also told him to grubber through for Frizell in the same way, and you're never going to guess who was the real brains behind him chipping it over for Marzhew's try. Couldn't possibly be that the kid with no playmaking skills and no hope of ever developing any simply looked up and saw an out of position fullback, and summed up the situation perfectly every time (save for a goal post pad).
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Oh yeah the goal post pad! Sometimes ya cant tell what side that guy is on.
 
Treadly said:
I agree Dan. I didn't have him playing that well in my estimation by half time yesterday. Not bad, but not great either. When a comintator said something like "he's playing out of his skin" I thought, nah 6/10.

Good attack stuff but bombed 2 tries. Gets run at all game due to poor first contact.

Swap Brown in there and just on defence to oposition make 50m or so less just on the others making up for Smiths contact.

Edit: in saying the above. I believe no Smith and we loose mre than we win so far this season.
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I thought he had a better day yesterday than you do, think he's been massive for us and our ability to score points - especially without KP and DB.

I would say though that this is the wrong way to evaluate the no tries, especially for a non-winger (where finishing itself is a core skill). It's much more important, and much more predictive of future performance, that Sandon is regularly getting himself into positions to score. He's smart, high energy, and putting himself in the right positions.
 
One thing that’s really leapt out at me this season is that the big black mark against him at the Chooks, besides him being another small half with a weak boot & therefore a rough fit beside Sam Walker, was that he had a really bad risk/reward matrix in his head, would chase opportunities which mean disaster if it goes wrong, and on top of that some of the stuff he’d go for just wasn’t on at all.

I’m not sure that’s been a feature of his play for us, he’s been very assured and composed and has mostly just taken what the defence is giving him. Definitely had a bad game vs the Wahs but he had plenty of mates and the game gets a lot harder when you don’t have another super dynamic spine player to absorb some defensive attention. But otherwise it seems like Holbrook & Hales have ironed out a lot of his improvement areas, on top of him I’d imagine just sort of hitting a level of experience where the game’s slowing down a bit.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
One thing that’s really leapt out at me this season is that the big black mark against him at the Chooks, besides him being another small half with a weak boot & therefore a rough fit beside Sam Walker, was that he had a really bad risk/reward matrix in his head, would chase opportunities which mean disaster if it goes wrong, and on top of that some of the stuff he’d go for just wasn’t on at all.

I’m not sure that’s been a feature of his play for us, he’s been very assured and composed and has mostly just taken what the defence is giving him. Definitely had a bad game vs the Wahs but he had plenty of mates and the game gets a lot harder when you don’t have another super dynamic spine player to absorb some defensive attention. But otherwise it seems like Holbrook & Hales have ironed out a lot of his improvement areas, on top of him I’d imagine just sort of hitting a level of experience where the game’s slowing down a bit.
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I've found him very willing to be patient and take the tackle if he feels nothing is on. That in itself keeps the defence honest around him.
 
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