Jesse Southwell gone!

Bold prediction alert.

Bulldogs and Warriors will be in next year's NRLW grandfinal, and they'll both do it with players they have developed themselves.
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
You can’t conflate the two things, NRL and NRLW.

Tell us how the Broncos could & should have compensated the Knights, we’re all ears.

The Titans just gave the same sort of release to Shannon Mato. 2 days ago. They happen a lot in the NRLW & it doesn’t seem to take much justification.
Click to expand...
Well let’s be honest then and just get rid of NRLW “contracts”, then it won’t matter when players leave on “compassionate grounds” after signing the current NRLW “contracts”.
We can’t have it both ways, a contract is a contract or we just say NRLW players will be at clubs until they feel like leaving.
Just a thought amid the current chaos, and I am open to alternate views that would make sense of all this.
 
If nothing else; don't just release her freely to go and walk to the Broncos? Make her find a team that isn't as good first or, ideally, go to union if she wants to get out of the remaining 3 years of her deal? Don't be complete pushovers and then cry about the NRLW being corrupt? All the hand wringing about how it's set up for the top 2 teams to dominate conveniently leaves out the part where the Broncos haven't featured in a grand final in 5 years and probably wouldn't be this year either if the Knights didn't hand Upton to them on a silver platter (and as a thank you gift they took Jesse as well). If she's on the Cowboys or Titans instead there's a much better chance the Knights are still playing this week.

To act like the Knights are blameless, or at the very least not proving themselves to be entirely incompetent in how they've dealt with these situations feels like sticking your head in the sand. In the last 18 months we've lost CJ, Upton & both Southwells. CJ & Hannah both left to teams that aren't even the big bad bullies picking on the poor little Knights so can't blame the NRLW for them, either. Meanwhile our biggest signing has been... Tiana Davison? Bo Vette-Welsh? Almost getting a 34-year old winger from union?

You can understand it with the likes of Upton & Boyle, they came here because the Knights gave them the best offer and had no allegiance to the team or town otherwise. CJ & the Southwells are as Newcastle as it gets and all decided they were better off elsewhere in quick succession. I don't know how that doesn't ring alarm bells.

And to be clear my argument isn't that there's no problem with the overall setup of the NRLW cap. My point is that the Knights were in position to be alongside the "big 2" (they were above them, in fact) and have done nothing but shoot themselves in the foot since the second premiership. I promise Broncos fans aren't crying over signing Jesse because they're worried about the rest of the comp, nor would we if we were still good and simultaneously capitalising on dumb teams doing dumb things.
 
Yeah… you really don’t get it mate. Sorry.

If a player is being given a compassionate grounds release, by definition you can’t dictate the destination. To survive the club needs to look like they will look after a player’s best interests, whether or not the fanbase wants them to be “tough” in some nebulous way.

The lesson here is to prioritise character. CJ didn’t want to go. She left because stumping up what it would take to keep her AND Tamika/Jesse was too rich for the club’s blood. All investment in the NRLW has to be justified to stakeholders in a way it doesn’t have to be for Brisbane/Easts.

Stamping your feet about how unfair it all is and how hard done by you are makes you look like the Tigers and it’s not going to change anything. Penrith still get absolutely ****ed over in the player market. They beat the system anyway. That’s the only road to “doing something about it”. It’s hard, it’s boring, and it takes a long time. But nothing else works long term.
 
The women should be treated in a less "businesslike" way than the men.
None of them are getting rich out of the game.
The men are getting rich and should be made to deliver on any commitments they make, but make the women unhappy and they walk away and make the same money stacking shelves at Coles.
 
Jesse was off contract, they haven’t released her early, therefore they have no say where she goes.

Tamika they let got because of Jesse, to keep her happy. So they couldn’t really tell her to **** off but only to a certain club either.

The Knights have stuffed up heaps of things, don’t get me wrong, particularly CJ and Ron. However, Tamika and Jesse aren’t blameless in this, especially not Jesse, who is apparently also fighting with her sister now. (Who do those pair remind you of)

Let’s not forget that it wasn’t just money that got Tamika and Millie here in the first place either.

I think moving forward, it would behoove the Knights to have a couples councillor on call or ban inter-club relationships entirely. That would actually solve quite a few problems in the whole NRLW entirely
 
HarVeeGee13 said:
Jesse requested a release over the last off season too. They talked her into playing out the contract and spent basically this whole season trying to convince her to sign an extension and offered basically everything they conceivably could. She absolutely has been the franchise player this year.

Short of holding a gun to her head I don’t know what else they could have done. It takes two parties to “wrap a player up”.

They also signed more players to long term deals than any other club and in the end Georgia Roche and Evie Jones are the only players who signed those deals a few years back till the end of 2027 who are still here. So the contracts seem to mean even less in the NRLW than the NRL.

Frankly, my read on it is that some of these girls want the perks of being professional athletes but don’t want to have to act like professionals. It is obviously a very together group of players that are dialled in more consistently than every other team in the comp except arguably the Roosters. It’s just bad luck that the players who were the ones causing the drama and friction happen to be the best players. 2024 prelim undermined by Tamika throwing a tantrum in captain’s run, 2025 by Southwell and Braith not at the very least being straight with the club about what was going to happen and letting it conveniently come out in the lead up that she was going to ditch us. It obviously had a massive impact on the performance on the weekend.
Click to expand...
And look I’ve said this before about her, she’s a professional athlete getting paid a good clip and she looks sloppy as. She obviously doesn’t do the physical extras or rehab like you would expect, and it does show in a lot of her games. And that’s basically what I heard was the issue for Tamika and Hannah as to why they jacked up, didn’t like being coached as a professional athlete.

We clearly have a deep issue in the club though that it feels like a business and not a family club. The interview with Milky boy basically told us that. AOB and Parr are responsible for that culture. As supporters we mark about their lack of communication, poor membership packs and timely manner. It’s definitely ingrained and needs a good clean up before we will be competitive. It doesn’t matter what players or what facilities we have if the players aren’t content.
 
Newygirl said:
Jesse was off contract, they haven’t released her early, therefore they have no say where she goes.

Tamika they let got because of Jesse, to keep her happy. So they couldn’t really tell her to **** off but only to a certain club either.

The Knights have stuffed up heaps of things, don’t get me wrong, particularly CJ and Ron. However, Tamika and Jesse aren’t blameless in this, especially not Jesse, who is apparently also fighting with her sister now. (Who do those pair remind you of)

Let’s not forget that it wasn’t just money that got Tamika and Millie here in the first place either.

I think moving forward, it would behoove the Knights to have a couples councillor on call or ban inter-club relationships entirely. That would actually solve quite a few problems in the whole NRLW entirely
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it seems to be as fairly common occurrence in women’s sports of them having relationships with team mates and then them going sour, it would be hard not to doubt but the ideal way would be for the players involved to try to be civil when polaying then not speak to each other outside the game place

There is plenty of players and coaches don’t get along but still turn up

I couldn’t imagine a banning on inter club relationships would ever get off the ground especially with the rlpa even though it could be helpful.

Jessie still is probably just too immature as she has had the world at her footstep and hopefully she doesn’t mature one day, realise she did things the wrong way and comes back better than ever
 
Beatell said:
And look I’ve said this before about her, she’s a professional athlete getting paid a good clip and she looks sloppy as. She obviously doesn’t do the physical extras or rehab like you would expect, and it does show in a lot of her games. And that’s basically what I heard was the issue for Tamika and Hannah as to why they jacked up, didn’t like being coached as a professional athlete.

We clearly have a deep issue in the club though that it feels like a business and not a family club. The interview with Milky boy basically told us that. AOB and Parr are responsible for that culture. As supporters we mark about their lack of communication, poor membership packs and timely manner. It’s definitely ingrained and needs a good clean up before we will be competitive. It doesn’t matter what players or what facilities we have if the players aren’t content.
Click to expand...
It’s a difficult one. I think one of the main complaints about last year was the lack of recovery time and Ben Jeffries said at the start of the year they reviewed that and made changes accordingly. So those complaints were justified

As for training like full time professionals. It must be difficult to manage at the moment because players like Tamika and Jesse are earning enough that yes they should be but then you’ve got the bulk of the squad that still has jobs and they’re simply not paid to be full-time professionals athletes.

To me it’s the clear difference with the Roosters is that the players clearly get to spend a lot more time in the gym than and training ours do.

Broncos are lucky that their forwards are so powerful the halves and backs (except Robinson) pretty much get to play touch footy. So not sure about how professional they are in that respect but they clearly spend a lot of time on skills.
 
Unfortunately if you are a professional rugby league player you only really have ten years to make enough money to potentially set yourself up. And obviously that is even more difficult for the girls who are on a lot less money. So you can't really blame the girls for chasing the money, but the NRWL must take control of this ridiculous situation if they want this arm of rugby league to survive. Like most on this forum, and everyone you talk to, no one can believe this has happened and surely the Knights management must accept some responsibility for this slap in the face. I couldn't imagine it happening at the Roosters
 
I’ve always been a little amused at how the NBA and Football clubs treat their players like commodities and “trade them” and “buy and sell” and it intrigues me that (even though they still have to agree to personal terms) they are just shipped off and expected to upend their life.

I mean, I’d happily pack my bags if somebody wanted to pay me as much as those guys are on. But happy that’s not something we do here.


Jesse wants to go. Fair enough. She’s entitled to. As disappointing as that is for us fans. I think we could learn why and see if we can work to rectify that.
I doubt it’s salary cap compliant wage - think we’d have enough to match whatever they are offering cap wise.

Is it coaching? Is it third party deals? Is it for love? Is it for a challenge? Is it to win comps? Is it a change of scenery? For family? Is it because Anastasia is a ****?

There’s some things we can’t do much about - and that’s life.
But it would be helpful for the future (club and the league) to figure out what exactly we need to do to be keeping these players. Do we need to be Improving their roles outside of footy? Do we need to try and develop some better sponsorship partnerships? Helping with accommodation? Do we need to sell the vision better?

Contracts don’t really mean too much these days. I think for genuine cases of personal reasons - I don’t really have too much of a problem. Eg IF Warriors let AFB go early to join a Sydney teams so he could be close to family - I feel like AFB would then be indebted and grateful to the Warriors for their compassion. I never felt that from Upton and everything I hear since then is more of a “F U Newcastle”. If you wanna be a bad guy like Lomax and force your way out of clubs, own it.
 
bremsstrahlung said:
I’ve always been a little amused at how the NBA and Football clubs treat their players like commodities and “trade them” and “buy and sell” and it intrigues me that (even though they still have to agree to personal terms) they are just shipped off and expected to upend their life.

I mean, I’d happily pack my bags if somebody wanted to pay me as much as those guys are on. But happy that’s not something we do here.


Jesse wants to go. Fair enough. She’s entitled to. As disappointing as that is for us fans. I think we could learn why and see if we can work to rectify that.
I doubt it’s salary cap compliant wage - think we’d have enough to match whatever they are offering cap wise.

Is it coaching? Is it third party deals? Is it for love? Is it for a challenge? Is it to win comps? Is it a change of scenery? For family? Is it because Anastasia is a ****?

There’s some things we can’t do much about - and that’s life.
But it would be helpful for the future (club and the league) to figure out what exactly we need to do to be keeping these players. Do we need to be Improving their roles outside of footy? Do we need to try and develop some better sponsorship partnerships? Helping with accommodation? Do we need to sell the vision better?

Contracts don’t really mean too much these days. I think for genuine cases of personal reasons - I don’t really have too much of a problem. Eg IF Warriors let AFB go early to join a Sydney teams so he could be close to family - I feel like AFB would then be indebted and grateful to the Warriors for their compassion. I never felt that from Upton and everything I hear since then is more of a “F U Newcastle”. If you wanna be a bad guy like Lomax and force your way out of clubs, own it.
Click to expand...
The age old saying of “my word is my bond” is well and truly dead and buried these days and during these times.
We have lost so much in the process.
 
I'm not going to shoulder any of the responsibility for the NRLW sinking or floating based on whether I watch it or not.

I hope it succeeds, but watching the games that are not played in front of an NRL game, shows where the sport is truly at.

And having just 2 teams as power houses, isn't going to help grow it.
 
Kurriboy said:
I'm not going to shoulder any of the responsibility for the NRLW sinking or floating based on whether I watch it or not.

I hope it succeeds, but watching the games that are not played in front of an NRL game, shows where the sport is truly at.

And having just 2 teams as power houses, isn't going to help grow it.
Click to expand...
If we’re honest it’s about on par with say sgball.
 
mullenmagic said:
If nothing else; don't just release her freely to go and walk to the Broncos? Make her find a team that isn't as good first or, ideally, go to union if she wants to get out of the remaining 3 years of her deal? Don't be complete pushovers and then cry about the NRLW being corrupt? All the hand wringing about how it's set up for the top 2 teams to dominate conveniently leaves out the part where the Broncos haven't featured in a grand final in 5 years and probably wouldn't be this year either if the Knights didn't hand Upton to them on a silver platter (and as a thank you gift they took Jesse as well). If she's on the Cowboys or Titans instead there's a much better chance the Knights are still playing this week.

To act like the Knights are blameless, or at the very least not proving themselves to be entirely incompetent in how they've dealt with these situations feels like sticking your head in the sand. In the last 18 months we've lost CJ, Upton & both Southwells. CJ & Hannah both left to teams that aren't even the big bad bullies picking on the poor little Knights so can't blame the NRLW for them, either. Meanwhile our biggest signing has been... Tiana Davison? Bo Vette-Welsh? Almost getting a 34-year old winger from union?

You can understand it with the likes of Upton & Boyle, they came here because the Knights gave them the best offer and had no allegiance to the team or town otherwise. CJ & the Southwells are as Newcastle as it gets and all decided they were better off elsewhere in quick succession. I don't know how that doesn't ring alarm bells.

And to be clear my argument isn't that there's no problem with the overall setup of the NRLW cap. My point is that the Knights were in position to be alongside the "big 2" (they were above them, in fact) and have done nothing but shoot themselves in the foot since the second premiership. I promise Broncos fans aren't crying over signing Jesse because they're worried about the rest of the comp, nor would we if we were still good and simultaneously capitalising on dumb teams doing dumb things.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure her contract was options for the next two years knights went in heavy with new contract she decline
 
The NRLW is not going to be a 2 horse race next year.
The Bulldogs have put huge effort into developing a junior system over the last few years, to the point they are flying in the best under 17s from Australia and NZ and are unbeatable at under 17s level and close to unbeatable at under 19s level. In the next few years they will have players who have had as much time and money spent on them as their male equivalents and they will be blowing current NRLW teams off the park.
Warriors are going a different route and cherry picking developed players from the massive NZ sevens and Union talent pools. They will also go to new levels next year.
The Knights are also seeing the fruits of the local comps taking off and junior development bearing fruit.

The Bulldogs under 17s side has scored 869 points and conceded 84 points in their 15 wins 1 draw 0 losses in the regular season games since the comp started 2 years ago. They are scoring an average of 54 points in 60 minute games. The bulldogs are flying in players from Qld and NZ and have players travelling from around the state. The players they have used will be 17, 18 and 19 next year.
 
I buy the Warriors improving a fair bit, but that's due to their impending "four massive free agent signings." But I think you're massively underestimating just how far ahead those top two sides are Billy. And no matter how good those Bulldogs girls are against other 17 year olds, you're underestimating how big the step up is against 22-25 year olds. There's a reason there tends to be only a few teenagers at most each year who are actually good forwards from the jump. Those girls you're talking about, it is improbable that one of them is even close to as good as Shalom Sauaso, who's basically a luxury player for Brisbane right now rather than a key starter.

Like let's wait and see how many of these girls *are actually in the top 24* at those clubs next year before making pronouncements about how good their teams will be. And let's see how many of the best ones are actually still Bulldogs or Warriors, rather than poached by the Big Two once they hit adulthood. Hell, two of the starting middles in the 2024 Bulldogs Lisa Fiaola premiership winning team got poached by the Dragons of all teams, one of them (Trinity Tauaneai) has gone on to make an NRLW debut so far, and the gap between her and Sauaso - who is younger than her - is about as big as the one between Tiana Davison and Millie Elliott. The actual Bulldogs NRLW side is also full of older girls they've signed over the top of these all-conquering Lisa Fiaola and Tarsha Gale teams anyway.

Maybe "in a few years", as you say, they'll be blowing the top teams off the park. Maybe. Let's see if we see any actual signs of it before we say it's imminent though. Grace Kukutai looks like the best forward in the world in women's NSW Cup and then struggles in the NRLW, and reserve grade is a step up from Lisa Fiaola/Tarsha...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top