TRIAL 1 - NEWCASTLE KNIGHTS V CANTERBURY BULLBOGS 21/2/2022

[Les Misérables]

Not sure I totally agree with that. The Panthers played some of the most conservative and boring football in the NRL in 2018-19 and definitely eased Cleary into first grade as the secondary half, with Maloney more dominant. Luai had to wait in reserves for a lot longer than a lot of other talented halves. Definitely seems to me that they wanted to nail the basics first, didn’t wanna just toss their kids out there and just let them play and let the chips fall where they may. Quite the opposite.

Yeah they generate more highlights than us, but also that’s because they absolutely choke the life out of teams with insane defensive line speed and pinpoint kicking. So they have the ball more than other teams, in better spots than other teams, behind a very dominant pack… no wonder they get plenty of opportunity to express themselves.

I reckon you might be putting the cart before the horse tbh. They’re not good because they let their attacking players loose; they can let their attacking players loose because they’re so historically dominant at the basics.

From what I am reading you and James are talking about two different things. I tend to agree with James. And I think Bennett learned that lesson from his time in Newcastle becuase the very next year he went back to Brisbane and had them playing to their strengths and throwing the ball around, and nearly won the comp.

Joey Johns epitomised talent and effort. I tend to believe it is that simple. The reason the Panthers are successful is because they all put in 110% every week and they're in the top handful of teams talent wise. Managing a squad properly are the foundations of success but you don't win premierships by simply easing players in FG. Look at the Roosters.

 

[Still_Nutty]

Hi, anyone heard any news on Bailey Hodgson’s elbow injury? Hope it’s only a minor one, thought he played well for the time he was on the pitch.

Just saw on another post - apparently Hodgson out for 3 months with a fractured elbow

Ex-Castleford Tigers starlet Bailey Hodgson suffers horrendous injury on Newcastle Knights debut - Serious About Rugby League

Former Castleford Tigers academy graduate Bailey Hodgson has suffered a bad injury on his Newcastle Knights debut. Having made the move to the NRL back at the end of 2020, Hodgson was determined to get some game time in 2022 after spending 2021 patiently waiting in the wings for an opportunity...

www.seriousaboutrl.com

Really disappointed for him - sounds like a fair road to recovery but hopefully he will be right by mid-season to press his claims for a spot towards the back end of this year

 

[ApperceptionJosh]

Just saw on another post - apparently Hodgson out for 3 months with a fractured elbow

Ex-Castleford Tigers starlet Bailey Hodgson suffers horrendous injury on Newcastle Knights debut - Serious About Rugby League

Former Castleford Tigers academy graduate Bailey Hodgson has suffered a bad injury on his Newcastle Knights debut. Having made the move to the NRL back at the end of 2020, Hodgson was determined to get some game time in 2022 after spending 2021 patiently waiting in the wings for an opportunity...

www.seriousaboutrl.com

Really disappointed for him - sounds like a fair road to recovery but hopefully he will be right by mid-season to press his claims for a spot towards the back end of this year

That sounds like a worst case scenario, at least compared to nrlphysios diagnosis.

 

[HarVeeGee13]

From what I am reading you and James are talking about two different things. I tend to agree with James. And I think Bennett learned that lesson from his time in Newcastle becuase the very next year he went back to Brisbane and had them playing to their strengths and throwing the ball around, and nearly won the comp.

Joey Johns epitomised talent and effort. I tend to believe it is that simple. The reason the Panthers are successful is because they all put in 110% every week and they're in the top handful of teams talent wise. Managing a squad properly are the foundations of success but you don't win premierships by simply easing players in FG. Look at the Roosters.

I don't believe for a second Sam Walker would have started even one game in first grade last year without Keary getting injured. And they absolutely ease players in all the time, Tupouniua for example was on managed minutes for multiple years when he came into first grade. Also we can point to how lethal Melbourne are in attack, but I feel like I've seen a long-form interview with Adam O'Brien where they talk about the tweaks they made to the attack in 2017, where he pretty much says verbatim that Bellyache was only comfortable giving his players more rope because they had got their defence and ability to control a game up to a level he was happy with in 2016 after a few "down" seasons (down seasons which involved a trip to a prelim mind you!). So yeah I think the principle of getting the basics up to a certain level, THEN building on that has a long track record of success... you just need to actually execute on getting those basics right, and you need some luck with injury to build the continuity you need to have some success trying your hand more.

What's frustrating is that while we figure things out, we're competing with teams who've already gone through their evolution, and the best teams are further ahead of the rest than they have been in the whole time I've been watching the sport IMO... I don't think it's ever been harder to catch up and I feel like we're kind of sweating on a couple of good teams having a down year to be brutally honest.

Also I don't really think we have the cattle to play a really, really expansive brand of footy. Don't expect us to chain passes together like the Roosters - it'll be about striking the right balance, and our biggest strength is still the power game in the forwards. If we can at least catch our ball-playing up to the likes of Parramatta though, that's a good step in the right direction.

 

[Kurriboy]

There are 16 teams in the comp, 3 teams are head and shoulders above others over the past few seasons.

But we should be aiming to be defeating the rest.

Getting the basics down...we should have the basics of passing one out from the play the ball to a prop running dead straight by now.

Any player reaching NRL level should have the basics of rugby league down by then. Sure, NRL is another level but the basics should be ingrained.

I don't buy that we need to spend years being bland in order to get the basics down. We bought Pearce in, gags, Brailey, etc etc all apparently needing to go back to basics here before we allow them to be expansive?

Just lol.

 

[danknights]

There are 16 teams in the comp, 3 teams are head and shoulders above others over the past few seasons.

But we should be aiming to be defeating the rest.

Getting the basics down...we should have the basics of passing one out from the play the ball to a prop running dead straight by now.

Any player reaching NRL level should have the basics of rugby league down by then. Sure, NRL is another level but the basics should be ingrained.

I don't buy that we need to spend years being bland in order to get the basics down. We bought Pearce in, gags, Brailey, etc etc all apparently needing to go back to basics here before we allow them to be expansive?

Just lol.

I think your missing the point. Everyone needs to get to a baseline, whether that be in attack or defence. The more time spent together as a group will ingrain what the guy next to you is going to do. Bringing that bad game closer to your great game goes a long way to teams gelling. That's the point I'm trying to get through anyway.

 

[Kurriboy]

I think your missing the point. Everyone needs to get to a baseline, whether that be in attack or defence. The more time spent together as a group will ingrain what the guy next to you is going to do. Bringing that bad game closer to your great game goes a long way to teams gelling. That's the point I'm trying to get through anyway.

Brown was saying that for years, need to get our best and worst game closer together. We are still trying to do it apparently after several years of OB. Is mediocrity ingrained in the club? Are standards allowed to be that low in the interests of establishing a baseline where we can be consistent with less variance in good/bad?

We don't have the luxury of spending half a players NRL career establishing a defence baseline before moving on to attack. By the time they have the baselines sorted the squad will have retired.

 

[danknights]

Brown was saying that for years, need to get our best and worst game closer together. We are still trying to do it apparently after several years of OB. Is mediocrity ingrained in the club? Are standards allowed to be that low in the interests of establishing a baseline where we can be consistent with less variance in good/bad?

We don't have the luxury of spending half a players NRL career establishing a defence baseline before moving on to attack. By the time they have the baselines sorted the squad will have retired.

This is where it's on the players to buy in to whatever the coaches wants to implement. Conversations from senior players to coaching staff all the way down to player number 30 need to be on the same page.

Holding each and everyone accountable for even their training drills to be 110%. You'll soon learn who wants it and who doesn't. Sometimes these things take longer to establish. Having joey around hopefully brings the standard up a few pegs.

 

[Still_Nutty]

Brown was saying that for years, need to get our best and worst game closer together. We are still trying to do it apparently after several years of OB. Is mediocrity ingrained in the club? Are standards allowed to be that low in the interests of establishing a baseline where we can be consistent with less variance in good/bad?

We don't have the luxury of spending half a players NRL career establishing a defence baseline before moving on to attack. By the time they have the baselines sorted the squad will have retired.

In fairness to OB, he has had to attempt doing much of that development amid the impacts that COVID has had on the club over most of the past 2 seasons. In particular the challenge of player availability/development for the 30 man squad, without the ability to use the lower grades to lift that standard/close the gap across the whole playing group.

I know all the other clubs were dealing with the same issues during that period but he was doing that, at the same time he had only just started with the club, inheriting what Brown had left behind.

In spite of that and while it is still a work in progress, I do think he has had a reasonably successful impact on the raising the overall standard of our defensive structures to date...what gave me even more confidence on that front was the performance the lower grade players put in against the Bulldogs last week in the trial - the resilience and effort on effort plays, along with the general defensive structures shows me that we are making incrementally sustained progress as a club.

Are we up to competing at the top end of the NRL yet, I think we are still definitely a work in progress but back to back top 8s is certainly an improvement of the years under Brown and even Bennett for me.

And for this year, I expect to see us defensively improve again and expect to see a significant step up in the consistency and development of our attacking structures and execution... for his 3rd season, based on what he inherited and what I've flagged as some of the challenges he had to deal with, I think he is taking us sustainably in the right direction as a playing group and the broader culture at the Knights.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Is mediocrity ingrained in the club?

Yes, and its supporters.

Club isnt ruthless enough for mine. No way known some of our players would have been offered multi year deals at the Rorters or Storm, they would have been quietly shown the door.

Example - Edrik Lee hasnt played for 18 months. Previously had a 3 year contract with the Knights and got on the park 25 times. Yep played 1/3 of the games and yet there's talk of offering him a deal ? WTF ???? we offer multi year deals to the likes of Hunt and Mann ? defies belief.

 

[Les Misérables]

Yes, and its supporters.

Club isnt ruthless enough for mine. No way known some of our players would have been offered multi year deals at the Rorters or Storm, they would have been quietly shown the door.

Example - Edrik Lee hasnt played for 18 months. Previously had a 3 year contract with the Knights and got on the park 25 times. Yep played 1/3 of the games and yet there's talk of offering him a deal ? WTF ???? we offer multi year deals to the likes of Hunt and Mann ? defies belief.

That's AOB

 

[Kurriboy]

Sure, but on an even playing field that is fine. Unfortunately the Roosters and Storm can afford to let players go as they have a lineup of talent due to no shortage of players wanting to play for them. They get all the cream.

And Still Nutty. I pray he is raising standards. Trials I don't put any faith in. Once we are through the year and we see how we have gone with our resolve over the year, I'll make a call then. Previous seasons we had patches of good footy, and some real head scratching lapses where you wonder if the players understand they need to try to beat the opposition, not just wait for it to be handed to them.

 

[HarVeeGee13]

Yes, and its supporters.

Club isnt ruthless enough for mine. No way known some of our players would have been offered multi year deals at the Rorters or Storm, they would have been quietly shown the door.

Example - Edrik Lee hasnt played for 18 months. Previously had a 3 year contract with the Knights and got on the park 25 times. Yep played 1/3 of the games and yet there's talk of offering him a deal ? WTF ???? we offer multi year deals to the likes of Hunt and Mann ? defies belief.

The Roosters signed Blake Ferguson and still honoured the deal when he had to sit out a whole season for indecent assault.

Both clubs have players who have missed and/or look to continue to miss lengthy periods with concussion & other injury issues, who they have repeatedly re-signed: Keary, Papenhuyzen, Cordner.

Not saying Edrick is as good as those players, but I think showing loyalty and care for players who put in and are good culturally around the club is something that engenders loyalty from players in return. Edrick isn’t missing games because he’s lazy, he’s missing them due to things beyond his control.

Meanwhile just this off-season the club happily let Starford To’a walk, from what I’ve heard due to concerns about his work ethic and softness. AOB gave it to Sione straight that he didn’t think he was good enough for a permanent spot in his top 17.

I think you need to pick the right time to be ruthless. If you just tell guys to **** off due to bad luck with injuries, what do the other players think then? “Yes they like me now, but what if I do an ACL?” Not the best environment i don’t think.

 

[Sir Galahad]

The Roosters signed Blake Ferguson and still honoured the deal when he had to sit out a whole season for indecent assault.

Both clubs have players who have missed and/or look to continue to miss lengthy periods with concussion & other injury issues, who they have repeatedly re-signed: Keary, Papenhuyzen, Cordner.

Not saying Edrick is as good as those players, but I think showing loyalty and care for players who put in and are good culturally around the club is something that engenders loyalty from players in return. Edrick isn’t missing games because he’s lazy, he’s missing them due to things beyond his control.

Meanwhile just this off-season the club happily let Starford To’a walk, from what I’ve heard due to concerns about his work ethic and softness. AOB gave it to Sione straight that he didn’t think he was good enough for a permanent spot in his top 17.

I think you need to pick the right time to be ruthless. If you just tell guys to **** off due to bad luck with injuries, what do the other players think then? “Yes they like me now, but what if I do an ACL?” Not the best environment i don’t think.

just lol, guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

Big difference in comparisons there. While I do understand your point the comparisons are hardly valid.

What do Ferguson, Keary, Papenhuyzen, Cordner have in common ? pedigree - they're all champion players and all bar Papenhuyzen have extensive successful careers behind them, Edrik Lee is an average winger and will be 30 yrs old come seasons end and just over 100 NRL games, has missed 2/3's of his contracted games.

Back on point, not ruthless enough and overly accepting of mediocrity.