The pre-season thread - 2022

Saint43 said:
What’s the thoughts on the fullback position now having enough depth to be able to move ponga to 5/8? Strengthens the halves for sure.

Best at fullback would be interesting. Would run riot up the middle around tired forwards and is strong enough to bust the line even when the forwards are fresh. As well as demolish smaller halves once singled out. Defence and positioning would be the question mark.

Gaga has played with some of the best fullbacks of the past ten years and no doubt would be safe as houses, still dangerous and would keep the defensive line in position. He’d be grateful for the opportunity and most likely make the most of it.

Then there’s to’a, hodgson and hoy as depth.

1. Best/Gagai/To’a/Hodgson/Hoy
2. Hunt/Young/Musgrove
3. Young/Hunt
4. Gagai/Best
5. Tuala/To’a
6. Ponga
7. Clifford

The first line would be my pick but a combination of this would be a much more balanced team with plenty of depth for each position having Crossland, Clune etc.
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Doubt best would have the engine for fullback. If you moved gagai you’d be severely weakening our center position. I’d pick between hoy Hodgson and toa and probably give hodgson the first shot tbh. We’ve seen what young flighty fulllbacks can do even if they’re a bit unpolished.
 
Saint43 said:
What’s the thoughts on the fullback position now having enough depth to be able to move ponga to 5/8? Strengthens the halves for sure.

Best at fullback would be interesting. Would run riot up the middle around tired forwards and is strong enough to bust the line even when the forwards are fresh. As well as demolish smaller halves once singled out. Defence and positioning would be the question mark.

Gaga has played with some of the best fullbacks of the past ten years and no doubt would be safe as houses, still dangerous and would keep the defensive line in position. He’d be grateful for the opportunity and most likely make the most of it.

Then there’s to’a, hodgson and hoy as depth.

1. Best/Gagai/To’a/Hodgson/Hoy
2. Hunt/Young/Musgrove
3. Young/Hunt
4. Gagai/Best
5. Tuala/To’a
6. Ponga
7. Clifford

The first line would be my pick but a combination of this would be a much more balanced team with plenty of depth for each position having Crossland, Clune etc.
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Not sure how you know for sure that Ponga strengthens the Halves when it didn't work last time and the coach said he isn't moving . Agree about Best I said a few days ago that Best at F/b would be an interesting game to watch.
Moving Ponga from F/b would be weakening one position (F/b) to try and strengthen another which didn't work last time.
Besides Ponga has also said the coach told him he is not moving so thats a mute story now .
We have at least 3 guys capable of playing 5/8 and cash to buy a 5/8 if need be rather than move a bloody good F/b for Gagai who has never played F/b no thanks .
 
If Crossland steps up and does a top job in the halves, whoever played hardball with him to sign him up for minimum wage has pulled off the value signing of the season.
A Clifford/Crossland halves might be the cheapest in the comp.
 
Whether we have depth at fullback is irrelevant now.

Ponga has to want to play in the halves and he doesn't seem to want to. He is happy bludging at the back whilst everyone else makes the tackles and runs up and back in D.

And Ethan, how do you not see that Ponga attacks from the halves anyway, it didn't work last time which is debatable anyway but that was in a very crap Knights team. Now, he does not play the same, and every attacking set he is attacking from the halves anyway. He has learned a hell of a lot since he was put in to the halves by Brown back then.

Moving him is just the number on his back and allowing a fullback to come in and actually play fullback.

I'm starting to believe that after the Ponga era is over, we will look back and say Ponga was the reason we made the semi's while also simultaneously being the reason we didn't push on.
 
Fair points from all.

I just can’t help but feel that ponga is almost wasted at fullback. Rarely take advantage of open play returning the ball and is usually out of position for any line breaks or off the cuff footy. Not the greatest last line of d either. Plays like a half and is dangerous when he has the ball in hands. Would rather he focused on what he does best. Whether he wants to play in the halves or not shouldn’t be up to him. Should be what’s best for the team, whatever that is deemed to be. I think he’ll be gone by 2023 anyway and won’t really be that upset by it. Has good highlights but star players and highlights don’t necessarily make a great team unless it’s junior footy. Hopefully Joey has the team dynamics and organisation gelling and makes it work.

I don’t see Gagai or best not being at centre significantly weakening us compared to last year either. I can see young with a break out year there. Probably more hoping lol. Gagai grew up playing fullback from memory and has played there on top grade. Minimal, I know, but he has and didn’t look too out of place.

But yeah I guess it is a moot point as it’s unlikely ponga is staying at f/b. I just think that’s a mistake made to try and keep him by giving him what he wants. That probably won’t work anyway. Let him go and use the money to strengthen from elsewhere or with what we have already to retain young talent. It’s there and here’s hoping that with Joey there working on attack, we see some players give us a shock.
 
*as it’s unlikely, ponga is staying at fullback.

Forgot the comma, making it read wrong.

May as well change unlikely to not happening too lol
 
Billy said:
If Crossland steps up and does a top job in the halves, whoever played hardball with him to sign him up for minimum wage has pulled off the value signing of the season.
A Clifford/Crossland halves might be the cheapest in the comp.
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I think Crossland would do the job and im hoping Clune can too , id still like to see Simi given a shot there .. Im not sure what it is but there is something about that kid .
 
Saint43 said:
Fair points from all.

I just can’t help but feel that ponga is almost wasted at fullback. Rarely take advantage of open play returning the ball and is usually out of position for any line breaks or off the cuff footy. Not the greatest last line of d either. Plays like a half and is dangerous when he has the ball in hands. Would rather he focused on what he does best. Whether he wants to play in the halves or not shouldn’t be up to him. Should be what’s best for the team, whatever that is deemed to be. I think he’ll be gone by 2023 anyway and won’t really be that upset by it. Has good highlights but star players and highlights don’t necessarily make a great team unless it’s junior footy. Hopefully Joey has the team dynamics and organisation gelling and makes it work.

I don’t see Gagai or best not being at centre significantly weakening us compared to last year either. I can see young with a break out year there. Probably more hoping lol. Gagai grew up playing fullback from memory and has played there on top grade. Minimal, I know, but he has and didn’t look too out of place.

But yeah I guess it is a moot point as it’s unlikely ponga is staying at f/b. I just think that’s a mistake made to try and keep him by giving him what he wants. That probably won’t work anyway. Let him go and use the money to strengthen from elsewhere or with what we have already to retain young talent. It’s there and here’s hoping that with Joey there working on attack, we see some players give us a shock.
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The coach came out and said Ponga wasn't moving long before that interview of him saying he wants to stay at F/b.
I think its a mutual thing they both want him at F/b because 1... He is the best F/b we have
2.... We have about what 5 guys that are signed to play in the 6 and 7 and 3... I don't think any good coach would move a SOO F/b to the 6 if he didn't have someone as good to take his place, especially when the F/b doesn't want to move and signed to play there and you have 4 or 5 guys there to do that job..
Also there is the fact Ponga to 6 was a complete failure the first time which is hard for me to say because i think i was the first to suggest Ponga to 6 and everyone told me i was an idiot and after his first go at 6 they were right .
 
Saint43 said:
What’s the thoughts on the fullback position now having enough depth to be able to move ponga to 5/8? Strengthens the halves for sure.

Best at fullback would be interesting. Would run riot up the middle around tired forwards and is strong enough to bust the line even when the forwards are fresh. As well as demolish smaller halves once singled out. Defence and positioning would be the question mark.

Gaga has played with some of the best fullbacks of the past ten years and no doubt would be safe as houses, still dangerous and would keep the defensive line in position. He’d be grateful for the opportunity and most likely make the most of it.

Then there’s to’a, hodgson and hoy as depth.

1. Best/Gagai/To’a/Hodgson/Hoy
2. Hunt/Young/Musgrove
3. Young/Hunt
4. Gagai/Best
5. Tuala/To’a
6. Ponga
7. Clifford

The first line would be my pick but a combination of this would be a much more balanced team with plenty of depth for each position having Crossland, Clune etc.
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Ponga has said he doesn't want to play in the halves, so this is a moot point.

But even if it wasn't, the idea of Best at fullback makes no sense. He's got no real experience playing there, there's nothing to suggest his communication in defence would work, there's nothing to suggest his positional play would work. On top of all of that, he's never displayed any real ability as a ball player - this is still the guy that couldn't execute a very simple catch and pass against the Panthers in 2020 - you want him making decisions as a ball player on sweep plays?

Best is a physical talent, and a good runner of the ball. But his future skews much more towards second row than it does fullback.
 
Ethan said:
The coach came out and said Ponga wasn't moving long before that interview of him saying he wants to stay at F/b.
I think its a mutual thing they both want him at F/b because 1... He is the best F/b we have
2.... We have about what 5 guys that are signed to play in the 6 and 7 and 3... I don't think any good coach would move a SOO F/b to the 6 if he didn't have someone as good to take his place, especially when the F/b doesn't want to move and signed to play there and you have 4 or 5 guys there to do that job..
Also there is the fact Ponga to 6 was a complete failure the first time which is hard for me to say because i think i was the first to suggest Ponga to 6 and everyone told me i was an idiot and after his first go at 6 they were right .
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I’d be a bad coach then hahaha. Rather have a fullback that does the basics consistently over one that has all the talent but won’t do the dirty work. That’s just me though. Still hope he kills it and proves to be different this year.
 
Saint43 said:
I’d be a bad coach then hahaha. Rather have a fullback that does the basics consistently over one that has all the talent but won’t do the dirty work. That’s just me though. Still hope he kills it and proves to be different this year.
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Which of the fullback basics has Best shown a consistent ability to demonstrate?
 
MontyBrogan said:
Which of the fullback basics has Best shown a consistent ability to demonstrate?
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Best played fullback for a season of under 16s and was basically the form player in the comp and won us the grandfinal.
He was also fullback for NSW under 18s and NSW built their gameplan around him - which actually didn't work and NSW lost - not because of Best, but because Michael Ennis's plan of giving the ball to Best as often as they could was so obvious that Queensland designed their gameplan around stopping Best.
 
Billy said:
Best played fullback for a season of under 16s and was basically the form player in the comp and won us the grandfinal.
He was also fullback for NSW under 18s and NSW built their gameplan around him - which actually didn't work and NSW lost - not because of Best, but because Michael Ennis's plan of giving the ball to Best as often as they could was so obvious that Queensland designed their gameplan around stopping Best.
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Right, so he played fullback in the under 16s (and got moved from there because it's clearly not his best position), and apparently could be game planned out of an U18's origin game. Why is any of this an argument that he should be a first grade fullback?

My first post on this was literally saying that he's a physical talent - the exact sort of player you would expect to dominate a 16s comp...
 
MontyBrogan said:
Right, so he played fullback in the under 16s (and got moved from there because it's clearly not his best position), and apparently could be game planned out of an U18's origin game. Why is any of this an argument that he should be a first grade fullback?

My first post on this was literally saying that he's a physical talent - the exact sort of player you would expect to dominate a 16s comp...
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He was a very good fullback, albeit not a modern ballplaying one.
Best charging through the ruck at full pace, calling for the ball, and targeting weak defenders would still be giving some of those kids nightmares.
He lost the position to To'a when Best was injured (surprise) at the start of the 2018 season and To'a did so well he kept the spot and Best was tried in the centres instead - where he went OK as well. The NSW selectors still picked him at fullback, because he was a weapon - they just relied on him to be their strike weapon too much.
 
Ethan said:
The coach came out and said Ponga wasn't moving long before that interview of him saying he wants to stay at F/b.
I think its a mutual thing they both want him at F/b because 1... He is the best F/b we have
2.... We have about what 5 guys that are signed to play in the 6 and 7 and 3... I don't think any good coach would move a SOO F/b to the 6 if he didn't have someone as good to take his place, especially when the F/b doesn't want to move and signed to play there and you have 4 or 5 guys there to do that job..
Also there is the fact Ponga to 6 was a complete failure the first time which is hard for me to say because i think i was the first to suggest Ponga to 6 and everyone told me i was an idiot and after his first go at 6 they were right .
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And prior to that Ponga had said he sees himself as a fullback. Which was after he "failed" at 5/8 which I don't think is fair. He was hounded in to 5/8 by the press and got his shot, put in there by Brown which I don't believe is much of a strategist for attacking play, playmaking for a fairly weak Knights outfit and a lot of the blame for our losses got put on KP. The media flipped from asking when Ponga was going to move to 5/8, to asking how much longer he can be left there again, applying pressure to Brown. Inevitably Brown moved him back.

The switch happened in 2019. First 3 games we beat Cronulla who finished 7th, Lost to Panthers who finished 10th by only 2 points and lost to Raiders who finished 4th by 7 points. He switched back to fullback and the next 3 were all losses, Dragons by 1 who finished 15th, Manly by 8 that finished 6th and Titans by 24 that finished last. So effectively with KP at 5/8 we beat 7th and only just lost to 2 other teams who finished above us on the ladder, then went on to lost to 2 teams who finished below us and 1 team above. Clearly our fortunes with Ponga at 1 and then at 6 didn't really change.

Ponga at fullback isn't working for us. I keep posting that he is weakening 2 positions by playing at fullback as he doesn't do the fullback work, and he is taking a lot of the ball in attacking situations that a 5/8 should. So if we pick a genuine 5/8 we now have three playmakers and no fullback essentially. There is more to fullback than catching the ball from kicks, and passing to a winger to run it back. That is essentially all he does of a fullbacks work, oh and spending defensive sets standing 20m behind play, he has that bit mastered. The rest he is 5/8.
 
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MontyBrogan said:
Ponga has said he doesn't want to play in the halves, so this is a moot point.

But even if it wasn't, the idea of Best at fullback makes no sense. He's got no real experience playing there, there's nothing to suggest his communication in defence would work, there's nothing to suggest his positional play would work. On top of all of that, he's never displayed any real ability as a ball player - this is still the guy that couldn't execute a very simple catch and pass against the Panthers in 2020 - you want him making decisions as a ball player on sweep plays?

Best is a physical talent, and a good runner of the ball. But his future skews much more towards second row than it does fullback.
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He wouldn’t be making decisions as far as ball playing would go. Not unless he developed them overtime. But having him there hitting holes would trouble a defensive line, giving the half more options and time out wide creating the overlap if he doesn’t opt for best. Would be great for ponga if he was playing at 6 (established that yes, ponga will not be at 6 but for arguments sake) Not every fullback needs to be a ball player. Not only has he played fullback but he was a fullback. So as far as basics go, it wouldn’t take more than a preseason training in position to get him back there. Goes hard and would be following up on every break. Something I think we lack desperately, tired of watching half chances go nowhere when there’s no support moving forward. Also has a good offload once he’s got players hanging off him. Fullback gives him the space that he’s not been getting the last year and a bit because he’s getting marked up early. Let him roam. Not saying it’s guaranteed to work but it would be interesting to see and refreshing to watch a cannon ball fullback as most teams would be training to counter the ball playing fullback nowadays. His returns would be epic.

I’m just thinking of another established player in the squad that could play at the back as ponga plays like a 5/8th that doesn’t have to defend essentially.
 
Saint43 said:
He wouldn’t be making decisions as far as ball playing would go. Not unless he developed them overtime. But having him there hitting holes would trouble a defensive line, giving the half more options and time out wide creating the overlap if he doesn’t opt for best. Would be great for ponga if he was playing at 6 (established that yes, ponga will not be at 6 but for arguments sake) Not every fullback needs to be a ball player. Not only has he played fullback but he was a fullback. So as far as basics go, it wouldn’t take more than a preseason training in position to get him back there. Goes hard and would be following up on every break. Something I think we lack desperately, tired of watching half chances go nowhere when there’s no support moving forward. Also has a good offload once he’s got players hanging off him. Fullback gives him the space that he’s not been getting the last year and a bit because he’s getting marked up early. Let him roam. Not saying it’s guaranteed to work but it would be interesting to see and refreshing to watch a cannon ball fullback as most teams would be training to counter the ball playing fullback nowadays. His returns would be epic.

I’m just thinking of another established player in the squad that could play at the back as ponga plays like a 5/8th that doesn’t have to defend essentially.
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It is a shame that he plays centre, which is one of the least involved positions in the game today. A guy like him would go better & better the more times he just gets to run the ball. The modern fullback position is too advanced for him I'd think though, whether you can carry an old school fullback these days & cover it in other ways is another question. He'd probably go alright on the wing, but second-row definitely might be the go in the future. He's too good to waste away in the centres getting 6 touches a game. Just have to see him play a full season first.
 
A few years ago we had;
Chris Veaila - fullback for Pasifica under 16s V NSW and Minor and Major premiership winning fullback for the Knights under 16s.
Bradman Best - NSW U18s fullback.
Starford To'a - Junior Kiwis fullback
Tex Hoy - NSW U 20s fullback.
The same year Bailey Hodgson played for England at junior level.
From what I saw, all our players went great at that level - even Hoy had a fantastic game for NSW - and reports are that Hodgson was outstanding for England.
We let Meaney go because we had Ponga in firsts and fullback was our strongest position in the juniors.
All 5 of those guys are training with the top squad now.

Krys Mapapalangi was also considered a great fullback prospect till last year, when he switched to 5/8, and he is training with the squad too.
 
www.newcastleherald.com.au

Mitchell Pearce: Why my time was up at the Knights

"I wasn't sure I could give 100 percent going forward and that's not me. "
www.newcastleherald.com.au www.newcastleherald.com.au

Pearce interview with Toohey.
Not much new in it.
He thinks the reason Ponga shouldn't play 5/8 is that he couldn't help himself in defence and would make a lot of tackles and get knocked around.
He rates our best prospects as Crossland, who he thinks will benefit from working with Joey, Sasagi who has strength and running skills, Dom Young who was thrown in a bit early last season but has a lot of footy in him, and Jirah Momoisea who he says impressed him a lot in his games and is a great guy.
 
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