Premiership window?

Billy

Billy

Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
They say you can't always be premiership contenders these days because successful teams lose their best players due to salary cap issues as contracts expire.
We have a bunch of players like Marzhew, Crossland, Gamble, Thompson, Croker, Lucas and up and commers like Riley Jones, Oryn Keeley etc all on cheap contracts for 1 or 2 more years, and the chance to lock up rep standard players like Friz, The Safs, Best, etc.
This feels like a couple of good recruits and 4 or 5 players stepping up next year and we are genuine contenders for '24 and '25 before salary cap pressure starts to rip the heart out of the squad.
This year isn't over yet, so we are still a chance to go all the way, but if we don't, it feels like we have the foundations of a squad that should be contenders for another couple of years.
 
I was thinking of posting a similar thread. It really does feel like a window might be opening up for us … the success this year feels much more sustainable for several years and like it has greater potential heights than any of our other flirtations with the finals post-Joey.

And while we are reliant to Ponga to a degree, it feels like we aren’t going to fall apart without him. I think the culture at the club is currently excellent, and everyone is willing to work hard for continued success.

The squad balance is really good right now, too.
 
I honestly think our window is this year and 2025.
I think we lose a bit too much next year in Fitz and Dom to play better than this year.
2024 will give the young guys and new signings time to adjust.
 
The future looks grand. I dont like talk of a window at all, dont even like the term. The Knights should aim for a culture that insists it be in the hunt EVERY YEAR. Same Storm, Broncos , Rorters

At this stage we cannot compete with 3rd parties, golf rounds/real estate deals of other clubs so our pathways is vital. If the Knights can rectify the short fall we will compete on a more level playing field.

Key is obviously juniors coming through, they'll hopefully have the attitude of Bradman Best, love the club and will stay for less to live the dream.

Right now we got lucky, Crossland, Gamble and Leo are our Smith, Keary and Collins. This wont always be the case if we dont rectify the the discrepancy.
 
Yeah I think I’ve noted elsewhere that teams tend to take that step from also-ran to contender when they manage to get an influx of good to great players on cheap deals into their team all at once. To be a good team you need good coaching and some genuinely elite players, particularly in the spine & middle forwards, but to be great you need to be extracting a lot of surplus value from your cap. All the articles being written at the moment about how Leo, Greg, Punter & Phoenix are leading the charge while making chump change kind of say it all - it does feel like we’re at the start of something. And to that next year we could potentially add Lucas, Mapapalangi and one or two of the young forwards we’re promoting to the top squad - that would be a host of good players on cheap deals if they all pan out. That’s before you get to other players who I think are at least mildly underpaid, like Hastings, Elliott and Frizell now that he’s taking a pay cut to stay.

I honestly don’t think you can win a comp without the above happening, it’s hard to have the cattle without it. For all the talk about Melbourne consistently being a “contender” every year, they go through peaks and troughs too, their troughs are just “really good, consistent team that can’t beat other good teams come September”. A team with Munster and Grant in it will always be good, but when you look at that pack and that backline, do you see a team that can win the comp? I don’t. They’re honestly in a rebuilding period at the moment. Bellyache is just the GOAT coach.

Just need to hope next year reinforces and improves on the big steps taken this year, and we make the top four. Then you can say the window is open for sure.

The biggest difficulty we’re gonna have, besides the Penrith machine constantly replacing the players they lose (though I’m not sure how they replace Leniu), is that Brisbane have an even more profound case of greatplayersoncheapdeals-itis than we do. Walsh, Cobbo, Mam and a guy who’ll be a star for them next year, Dean Mariner, are all hugely underpaid. The only prescription for this disease is the Provan-Summons Trophy. Hopefully if they win the comp this season they won’t have the same intensity next year, because they’re a bit of a road block for us at the minute.
 
krustykraz said:
I honestly think our window is this year and 2025.
I think we lose a bit too much next year in Fitz and Dom to play better than this year.
2024 will give the young guys and new signings time to adjust.
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it’s possible neither of them play first grade next year, and I think we’ll be fine if that happens. Dylan Lucas looks like a goer on an edge and we already have better halves than Pryce.
 
Another benefit of success and a good brand of footy is attracting and retaining players.

We’ve had to deal primarily in club discards, juniors coming through and overpaying some of our better players to stay/come here.

Now, hopefully other players can see what we are building and capable of, maybe they’ll want to be a part of it. Eg we now might be in the conversation for an Adam Reynolds type player that is looking to win a prem and elevate a club. Not necessarily a half or saying we need to, but we will be considered if we choose to go to market for anybody.

Similarly with retention. As long as some of these guys are getting good game time and some results, maybe players like Gamble and marzhew are happier here contributing to wins and playing and I genuinely think our supporters make the players feel wanted and appreciated.

Even after the start to our year, it feels surreal to be in the finals and expecting at least to get to week 2.
 
bremsstrahlung said:
Another benefit of success and a good brand of footy is attracting and retaining players.

We’ve had to deal primarily in club discards, juniors coming through and overpaying some of our better players to stay/come here.

Now, hopefully other players can see what we are building and capable of, maybe they’ll want to be a part of it. Eg we now might be in the conversation for an Adam Reynolds type player that is looking to win a prem and elevate a club. Not necessarily a half or saying we need to, but we will be considered if we choose to go to market for anybody.

Similarly with retention. As long as some of these guys are getting good game time and some results, maybe players like Gamble and marzhew are happier here contributing to wins and playing and I genuinely think our supporters make the players feel wanted and appreciated.

Even after the start to our year, it feels surreal to be in the finals and expecting at least to get to week 2.
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The playing squad is secondary to the club culture, systems and coaching.

We've got a really effective coaching team under AOB. The players have bought it. If we can maintain that, it doesn't really matter who plays on the weekends, we'll be competitive, players will reach their potential - both juniors and new signings - success will be a self fulfilling object.
 
Les Misérables said:
The playing squad is secondary to the club culture, systems and coaching.

We've got a really effective coaching team under AOB. The players have bought it. If we can maintain that, it doesn't really matter who plays on the weekends, we'll be competitive, players will reach their potential - both juniors and new signings - success will be a self fulfilling object.
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This season has established and set the benchmark for acceptable culture at this club.

The settings are there but we must now embed those over the next 2 seasons, so the standards and expectations stick...the ingredients are now there, we know what they look like, we just need to cement them into our culture and we can set this club up for success.

I'm not necessarily talking premierships in the next few years but success in being recognised as a consistently competitive club in the NRL, that attracts and retains quality, without having to pay overs...a club that players are prepared to come to for less because of the culture and promise of always being in mix at the end of the season.
 
Still_Nutty said:
This season has established and set the benchmark for acceptable culture at this club.

The settings are there but we must now embed those over the next 2 seasons, so the standards and expectations stick...the ingredients are now there, we know what they look like, we just need to cement them into our culture and we can set this club up for success.

I'm not necessarily talking premierships in the next few years but success in being recognised as a consistently competitive club in the NRL, that attracts and retains quality, without having to pay overs...a club that players are prepared to come to for less because of the culture and promise of always being in mix at the end of the season.
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Yea culture breeds fortune. A winning culture is the hardest thing to find but easy to lose if you don't protect it with the same intensity that used to find it.

Clubs who's cosching staff are transitory tend to be the clubs who cannot maintain a winning culture. Manly, for example, had it and lost it by sacking Hasler. Yea they were still successful under Toovey but that was held together by the players, players who eventually retired or moved on.

The clubs who are most successful are the ones who's culture is driven by the coaching staff and the permanency of that staff.
 
Les Misérables said:
Yea culture breeds fortune. A winning culture is the hardest thing to find but easy to lose if you don't protect it with the same intensity that used to find it.

Clubs who's cosching staff are transitory tend to be the clubs who cannot maintain a winning culture. Manly, for example, had it and lost it by sacking Hasler. Yea they were still successful under Toovey but that was held together by the players, players who eventually retired or moved on.

The clubs who are most successful are the ones who's culture is driven by the coaching staff and the permanency of that staff.
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Some of the kneejerk coaching decisions, like Hasler at Manly, really defy belief. One bad season or a CEO wanting to mark their mark and put a new broom though ... look at Ivan Cleary at the Warriors, they have taken over a decade to see any sort of success again.

And it's the same with players. The really successful sides get their key players right, and milk them for all they're worth. And when players leave a really successful club, it can be a similar thing, it just doesn't work as well elsewhere.

I think when you get that bit of magic, it's just best for players and coaches to keep riding it for as long as possible.

If AOB can reproduce this success again for another couple of years, imo the job should be his for as long as he wants it. And given he did make the finals in 2020/21, maybe he's there already.
 
jamesgould said:
Some of the kneejerk coaching decisions, like Hasler at Manly, really defy belief. One bad season or a CEO wanting to mark their mark and put a new broom though ... look at Ivan Cleary at the Warriors, they have taken over a decade to see any sort of success again.

And it's the same with players. The really successful sides get their key players right, and milk them for all they're worth. And when players leave a really successful club, it can be a similar thing, it just doesn't work as well elsewhere.

I think when you get that bit of magic, it's just best for players and coaches to keep riding it for as long as possible.

If AOB can reproduce this success again for another couple of years, imo the job should be his for as long as he wants it. And given he did make the finals in 2020/21, maybe he's there already.
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Crazy to think he was out of a job 9 weeks ago if we lost to the dogs.
 
Area51 said:
The future looks grand. I dont like talk of a window at all, dont even like the term. The Knights should aim for a culture that insists it be in the hunt EVERY YEAR. Same Storm, Broncos , Rorters

At this stage we cannot compete with 3rd parties, golf rounds/real estate deals of other clubs so our pathways is vital. If the Knights can rectify the short fall we will compete on a more level playing field.

Key is obviously juniors coming through, they'll hopefully have the attitude of Bradman Best, love the club and will stay for less to live the dream.

Right now we got lucky, Crossland, Gamble and Leo are our Smith, Keary and Collins. This wont always be the case if we dont rectify the the discrepancy.
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with a team in a region of around a million people 3rd party deals and the stuff the fancy clubs have should be doable in the region
 
lowey said:
with a team in a region of around a million people 3rd party deals and the stuff the fancy clubs have should be doable in the region
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and Wests Group would not be without some influential board members, Mad Dog is quite the successful businessman these days, the Johns Bros are high profile and most likely know a few worthy contacts. Mac Jones Homes could have some great real estate deals.
 
Area51 said:
and Wests Group would not be without some influential board members, Mad Dog is quite the successful businessman these days, the Johns Bros are high profile and most likely know a few worthy contacts. Mac Jones Homes could have some great real estate deals.
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I wouldn't accept the standard of a Mac Jones home nowadays. Yuck yuck yuck. If I'm building a house id steer clear of Mac Jones/ mojo homes..........source: personal experience.
 
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