NSW Cup 2026

mullenmagic said:
I was a Votano believer a couple of years ago, and even 18 months ago it seemed plausible that another club would scoop him up to play fullback (there were rumours of the Bulldogs trying) but he's just completely plateaued as a player. Not a good athlete compared to what you see from fullbacks in the NRL and elite juniors (decent size but not particularly fast, strong or agile), low workrate/involvement (think he averaged less than 100m per game last year which is almost impossible as a fullback), and not particularly good as a passer/playmaker. If you ask me what his strength is at this stage I genuinely do not know how to answer that. I think back to the Harold Matts game against the Bears where he scored three long range tries and looked like Tom Trbojevic with headgear streaking away, and now it seems like maybe he was just the bigger/faster kid and eventually the rest of them caught up.

I included him in the team because he's on the development list while Latu and Aoake aren't but you could easily convince me they should be there over him (and I'm not even particularly high on Aoake). As mentioned Hunt has clearly been preferred at fullback from what they're showing us, Toby Winter is a much better prospect at fullback/centre at this stage and there's several other outside backs that I'd say have higher upside, too. Hard to see where he really fits in here going forward.

Regardless of where he plays he's off-contract and will be needing a much better season than he had last year. If I were him I'd be trying to follow his younger brother to Melbourne and hoping they can turn me into their new Meaney. Said before I think that being a solid utility back is more in line with his skillset than the elite player we hoped he would be a few years ago.
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Know someone close to the club , your comments pretty much spot onThey won't lose any sleep if he leaves
 
mullenmagic said:
I was a Votano believer a couple of years ago, and even 18 months ago it seemed plausible that another club would scoop him up to play fullback (there were rumours of the Bulldogs trying) but he's just completely plateaued as a player. Not a good athlete compared to what you see from fullbacks in the NRL and elite juniors (decent size but not particularly fast, strong or agile), low workrate/involvement (think he averaged less than 100m per game last year which is almost impossible as a fullback), and not particularly good as a passer/playmaker. If you ask me what his strength is at this stage I genuinely do not know how to answer that. I think back to the Harold Matts game against the Bears where he scored three long range tries and looked like Tom Trbojevic with headgear streaking away, and now it seems like maybe he was just the bigger/faster kid and eventually the rest of them caught up.

I included him in the team because he's on the development list while Latu and Aoake aren't but you could easily convince me they should be there over him (and I'm not even particularly high on Aoake). As mentioned Hunt has clearly been preferred at fullback from what they're showing us, Toby Winter is a much better prospect at fullback/centre at this stage and there's several other outside backs that I'd say have higher upside, too. Hard to see where he really fits in here going forward.

Regardless of where he plays he's off-contract and will be needing a much better season than he had last year. If I were him I'd be trying to follow his younger brother to Melbourne and hoping they can turn me into their new Meaney. Said before I think that being a solid utility back is more in line with his skillset than the elite player we hoped he would be a
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Agreed
 
I agree wholeheartedly what is being said about Votano. The club had him debut too early and made no sense when they had Fletcher Hunt developing nicely.
I’ve been an advocate of not pushing these kids too early - let them develop and come through those ranks like all the other clubs seem to do. Our cup side seems to be one of the youngest last year and that was purely because half of them were still flegg or lesser age eligible.

As for the mention of Henderson? I disagree - hes ok sure but ok as a part time fill in if needed. And he’s a halves fill in, nothing else. Saw him in hooker for short stint last year at one of the games and shook my head
 
Maybe we are missing the bigger picture here, before we start bagging young kids, knights have one of the best junior systems around yet can’t transition them into regular first graders which most of all the nrl clubs are able to do.

Why do we struggle in that bridge from jnrs to nrl ?

There would be a handful of the recent knights era that have produced regular first graders which is not very good considering our jnrs.

Commenting on the likes of Votano and how he’s not performing at the moment remember he is only 19 played only one year of Sg ball straight to nsw cup at 18 played two nsw under 19s origin games one a year young, made his NRL debut all why still only 19. yes! Didn’t really go the best but what more could he do in a woefully coached knights team and to be the only one to be dropped the week after knowing they would be hammered by the broncos in which they where so couldn’t even get a 2nd game under his belt to build confidence.

Fletcher sharpe played two years sg ball and then flegg, cup before making his debut, winter is in his 2nd year of Sg ball also playing against younger kids, Votano didn’t get to develop like he should of and knights let that happen.

Maybe he’s in an rutt at the moment yea and has been pushed too early, And yes some kids do just fall of and out but the likes of Votano and what he can produce shouldn’t happen we need to maintain and grow these kids.

So before we comment on young kids like old mate who wrote that above and I’m sure we will be onto the next kid who don’t produce at a young age we should be looking higher. Why don’t knights have regular nrl players or stars wanting to come here, besides Kp and brown who have obviously been offered great money and very hard to refuse other then that we struggle. And why we let go so many Jnrs who have all the tools like Votano who has produced at a young age go on to be superstars at other clubs because knights don’t have the patience how do we miss that ?

Someone needs to get something right with these kids, why do Penrith do it so well something is just not right.
 
True but also remember there were some on here last year talking down on Hopwood last year after 1-2 average performances
 
Kong said:
Maybe we are missing the bigger picture here, before we start bagging young kids, knights have one of the best junior systems around yet can’t transition them into regular first graders which most of all the nrl clubs are able to do.

Why do we struggle in that bridge from jnrs to nrl ?

There would be a handful of the recent knights era that have produced regular first graders which is not very good considering our jnrs.

Commenting on the likes of Votano and how he’s not performing at the moment remember he is only 19 played only one year of Sg ball straight to nsw cup at 18 played two nsw under 19s origin games one a year young, made his NRL debut all why still only 19. yes! Didn’t really go the best but what more could he do in a woefully coached knights team and to be the only one to be dropped the week after knowing they would be hammered by the broncos in which they where so couldn’t even get a 2nd game under his belt to build confidence.

Fletcher sharpe played two years sg ball and then flegg, cup before making his debut, winter is in his 2nd year of Sg ball also playing against younger kids, Votano didn’t get to develop like he should of and knights let that happen.

Maybe he’s in an rutt at the moment yea and has been pushed too early, And yes some kids do just fall of and out but the likes of Votano and what he can produce shouldn’t happen we need to maintain and grow these kids.

So before we comment on young kids like old mate who wrote that above and I’m sure we will be onto the next kid who don’t produce at a young age we should be looking higher. Why don’t knights have regular nrl players or stars wanting to come here, besides Kp and brown who have obviously been offered great money and very hard to refuse other then that we struggle. And why we let go so many Jnrs who have all the tools like Votano who has produced at a young age go on to be superstars at other clubs because knights don’t have the patience how do we miss that ?

Someone needs to get something right with these kids, why do Penrith do it so well something is just not right.
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I agree with this. I read somewhere the roosters between 2020 - 2023 NRL seasons debuted 20 players & the Knights were 8 for the same period. The Panthers have had the same system & recruitment team for years & their success just continues. We've had massive changes in recruitment personnel. Instability, the old recruitment team Zammit & Doyle had their success, as has POS. Both have had plenty go wrong. It cannot be easy. The other point is POS inherited Votano & may not resign him.
 
Both Hopwood and Votano were thrown in the deep end last year - maybe because Hunt and McEwan had been more or less successful as 18 year olds in cup.
Hopwood wasn't doing any better than Votano till late in the season, but did eventually start earning his stripes.
Votano could come good this year.
Some young guys peak at 18 and never get any better. Some only start developing well from age 18. Others develop in fits and starts.
 
Billy said:
Both Hopwood and Votano were thrown in the deep end last year - maybe because Hunt and McEwan had been more or less successful as 18 year olds in cup.
Hopwood wasn't doing any better than Votano till late in the season, but did eventually start earning his stripes.
Votano could come good this year.
Some young guys peak at 18 and never get any better. Some only start developing well from age 18. Others develop in fits and starts.
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Yep that’s true also. But if they are peaking at 18 how are we not capitalising to pull them and slow them down. Penrith pretty much has provided the nrl with most of their jnrs which is a credit to them.

McEwen two years Sg ball and into flegg.

Casey McLean was sitting there for ages just waiting Penrith didn’t push him they developed him.

Just saying knights are always looking for the short cuts rather then the long run developing what you can, also understanding that don’t always work and you need players coming in who are nrl quality that’s a definite but when you have a strong Jnr base we should be benefiting from it in some way.
 
Kong said:
Yep that’s true also. But if they are peaking at 18 how are we not capitalising to pull them and slow them down. Penrith pretty much has provided the nrl with most of their jnrs which is a credit to them.

McEwen two years Sg ball and into flegg.

Casey McLean was sitting there for ages just waiting Penrith didn’t push him they developed him.

Just saying knights are always looking for the short cuts rather then the long run developing what you can, also understanding that don’t always work and you need players coming in who are nrl quality that’s a definite but when you have a strong Jnr base we should be benefiting from it in some way.
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Agreed, but it goes without saying that that's the benefit of winning games. They don't need a short cut because they're already winning.
Looking at the 2020 Panthers team, the key players were in their early 20's, and mostly made their debut's in their late teens.
In my opinion, the problem the Knights have had in the recent past has not been identifying junior talent (ala GI, and then the second coming of Latrell) but has been taking good youngsters and turning them into very good first graders (ala Josh King and Meaney, Barnett etc).
I think that has more to do with the first grade coaching and elite development rather than their junior development or years in Flegg.

Interested to see what others opinions may be.
 
Billy said:
Both Hopwood and Votano were thrown in the deep end last year - maybe because Hunt and McEwan had been more or less successful as 18 year olds in cup.
Hopwood wasn't doing any better than Votano till late in the season, but did eventually start earning his stripes.
Votano could come good this year.
Some young guys peak at 18 and never get any better. Some only start developing well from age 18. Others develop in fits and starts.
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As Bedsy says, sometimes talent isn’t enough.
 
KriKri said:
Agreed, but it goes without saying that that's the benefit of winning games. They don't need a short cut because they're already winning.
Looking at the 2020 Panthers team, the key players were in their early 20's, and mostly made their debut's in their late teens.
In my opinion, the problem the Knights have had in the recent past has not been identifying junior talent (ala GI, and then the second coming of Latrell) but has been taking good youngsters and turning them into very good first graders (ala Josh King and Meaney, Barnett etc).
I think that has more to do with the first grade coaching and elite development rather than their junior development or years in Flegg.

Interested to see what others opinions may be.
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And with teams like the Panthers it is equal measures of great junior pathways and even better coaching, so I would say you need both to be successful.
 
What i have seen in junior footy is the star of the team who can do anything and has never been smacked in the mouth. When he does get a big hit it isn't fun any more and confident drops. It takes a lot to come back from that some make it some dont. So when some of these players reach adult games it takes a long time to cope with the physicality of the game and get that confidence back.
 
Some very good takes Kong. I think we rush guys a fair bit too. I don't think we have put enough emphasis on that reserve grade level being a big step up from flegg. To me a great example is Jack Howarth at Melbourne. He was tipped as a superstar for years. But Melbourne were very patient with him and got about 80 second grade games under his belt before they gave him a look in.
 
Guessing the other winger is either Tea-Rani Woodman Tuhoro or Marcus D'Acre, and the half is most likely Matt Hunter

No Hunt, Schiller, Gamble, Graham, Crouch or Hola
 
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