NRLW GF Qualifier - Broncos vs Knights - 1:15pm Sunday 28 September - Suncorp Stadium

Need to put our first full 70 minutes of the season together to be any chance here.

Keep the errors to a minimum and utilise Southwell’s superior kicking game and we’re a shot. Fingers crossed because us and/or Cronulla winning this weekend would be a huge victory for the NRLW.
 
Caught a bit of the offsiders show on ABC and they said it should be Broncos Roosters GF, but talked up the Knights as capable of causing an upset, because "they know how to win big games".
 
I think we could definitely spring an upset.

We need 70 minutes of effort though, something we haven’t really managed to do this season, especially against good opposition.

We seem to concede points pretty easily, and against teams like Brisbane and Roosters, that’s almost game over. Hopefully get some early points to fuel the belief.
 
1. Bo Vette-Welsh
2. Sheridan Gallagher
3. Shanice Parker
4. Tenika Willison
5. Keighley Simpson
6. Georgia Roche
7. Jesse Southwell
8. Tayla Predebon
9. Olivia Higgins
10. Tiana Davison
11. Fane Finau
12. Yasmin Clydsdale (C)
13. Kayla Romaniuk

14. Jules Kirkpatrick
15. Simone Karpani
16. Sienna Yeo
17. Grace Giampino

18. Viena Tinao
19. Leilani Ahsam
20. Grace Kukutai
21. Lilly-Ann White
22. Joeli Morris
 
They’re gonna get ****ing creamed lol. Literally any half chance becomes a try with this Broncos team. It’s not any lack of effort on our part. The difference in athleticism is too big to be overcome. They’re a nightmare matchup for our girls. They can play the game ten times and it would never be close.

Hope I’m wrong but unless something truly miraculous happens (Jesse Southwell four 40/20’s and seven forced drop outs? Like we literally have to have almost 70% of the ball to win IMO), I don’t see a scenario where we’re within 12.

And I’m still pretty convinced they’re going to do it to the Roosters the weekend after too.
 
Just to add to the fun it’s on in middle of the day 30+ degrees in Brisbane.

Well done to the NRL. 2nd place will obliterate 3rd because one team is essentially full time athletes playing against part-time players. Same with the Roosters.

That’s the main issue. They’ve always had the most talent but the gap between the top players and the average wasn’t that significant, it’s widened tremendously now. 3 game Origin series exasperates it too.

Just look at the size difference between Jasmine Strange now and two years ago when she was on the wing with us. She would’ve been murdered playing in the back row then but now she obviously gets a lot more time in the gym she’s a lot bigger.

With that said, I fully endorse Sheridan going fully mental like she does playing A League and sending Tamika into next week.

The Sharks have Biddle and Dodd listed in the Reserves. If they both play and they put aberrant back to fullback, they might have a slight chance.
 
Newygirl said:
Just to add to the fun it’s on in middle of the day 30+ degrees in Brisbane.

Well done to the NRL. 2nd place will obliterate 3rd because one team is essentially full time athletes playing against part-time players. Same with the Roosters.

That’s the main issue. They’ve always had the most talent but the gap between the top players and the average wasn’t that significant, it’s widened tremendously now. 3 game Origin series exasperates it too.

Just look at the size difference between Jasmine Strange now and two years ago when she was on the wing with us. She would’ve been murdered playing in the back row then but now she obviously gets a lot more time in the gym she’s a lot bigger.

With that said, I fully endorse Sheridan going fully mental like she does playing A League and sending Tamika into next week.

The Sharks have Biddle and Dodd listed in the Reserves. If they both play and they put aberrant back to fullback, they might have a slight chance.
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Can you (or one of the other posters who follow this more closely than I do) please expand on this point a bit.

I come from the perspective of having watched (I think) every game of NRLW the knights have played over the years, but not paying much attention other than those 2 hours a week on Kayo. Have obviously seen the progression and improvement in the comp, saw last year our girls falling behind a bit athletically (arguably was happening earlier, but that's a different point), then all of a sudden this yearn there seems like a huge athletic and talent gap has suddenly appeared compared to two teams (one of which has no fans and no grass roots development...).

What's changed - and I know that's a big question. My (outdated) mental model was that there was one marquee player, and most of the rest of the team across the league played part time - with little oversight from the NRL about those part-time arrangements. Under that model, Wests was a great benefit to our club, because we could offer cheaper housing, flexible hours, and a variety of off the field jobs. Easts and the Broncos could of course do similar things, but didn't seem to prioritize it.

Has there been more money coming into the sport? A change of priorities at those clubs? NRLW has just evolved enough that media opportunities in the bigger cities outweigh other jobs?

Apologies for the deluge of questions, and appreciate any POVs. I know I only actually post here sporadically, but do read the forum everyday.
 
Let's not forget we were up 16-4 in round 8. It's doable. We just need to keep punching for 70 minutes.
 
Yeah they did have two marquee spots that were outside the salary cap who you could pay whatever you want. That’s how we got Tamika and Millie becuase the Knights were willing to throw money at the women’s program

Since the new CBA was announced, there’s no marquee spots. Here’s the link to the explainer of how salary cap works. https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/02/14/everything-you-need-to-know-nrlw-cba/amp/

Essentially because the cap is relatively small, there isn’t a great variation between what players earn regardless of talent. So to fill the players pockets, some teams have their players “working for the clubs” in community roles.

One club allegedly has a whole lot on $100k per year, plus their nrl wage, plus many of them play origin so that’s another $45k per year. This is in addition to, cheaper rents offered by club owned accommodation, third party jobs eg media roles.

Look at the how many Roosters made NSW squad. That’s an extra 2-3 months of training, in the gym and on the training paddock with most of their teammates, and coach so it’s no wonder their attack looks so much better.

So these players aren’t doing actual full time jobs / study etc on top of training. They can afford to not work and train full time most of the year round.

Some Knights players work for the club. Karpani is the receptionist but it’s still an actual job. I think Sheridan and Evah and few others have community roles, they go to schools etc. So think the Knights do a fair bit but can’t compete with the money at two other clubs. That or they don’t want to.

Yas gave up teaching for the time being because with rep commitments etc she couldn’t do both and properly doesn’t need the money so much now.

The only way to breach the gap is for the other clubs to cough up same sort of money for club roles or a job through a third party that doesn’t require much actual work.

Alternatively, the NRL for the next CBA could invest more money into salary cap so that minimum wage allows everyone to be full time athletes.

The Roosters do actually have grass roots development just obviously not Eastern Suburbs locals. They have the Central Coast and that’s where a lot of players come from given how big, League, Tag and Touch are down there
 
Newygirl said:
Yeah they did have two marquee spots that were outside the salary cap who you could pay whatever you want. That’s how we got Tamika and Millie becuase the Knights were willing to throw money at the women’s program

Since the new CBA was announced, there’s no marquee spots. Here’s the link to the explainer of how salary cap works. https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/02/14/everything-you-need-to-know-nrlw-cba/amp/

Essentially because the cap is relatively small, there isn’t a great variation between what players earn regardless of talent. So to fill the players pockets, some teams have their players “working for the clubs” in community roles.

One club allegedly has a whole lot on $100k per year, plus their nrl wage, plus many of them play origin so that’s another $45k per year. This is in addition to, cheaper rents offered by club owned accommodation, third party jobs eg media roles.

Look at the how many Roosters made NSW squad. That’s an extra 2-3 months of training, in the gym and on the training paddock with most of their teammates, and coach so it’s no wonder their attack looks so much better.

So these players aren’t doing actual full time jobs / study etc on top of training. They can afford to not work and train full time most of the year round.

Some Knights players work for the club. Karpani is the receptionist but it’s still an actual job. I think Sheridan and Evah and few others have community roles, they go to schools etc. So think the Knights do a fair bit but can’t compete with the money at two other clubs. That or they don’t want to.

Yas gave up teaching for the time being because with rep commitments etc she couldn’t do both and properly doesn’t need the money so much now.

The only way to breach the gap is for the other clubs to cough up same sort of money for club roles or a job through a third party that doesn’t require much actual work.

Alternatively, the NRL for the next CBA could invest more money into salary cap so that minimum wage allows everyone to be full time athletes.

The Roosters do actually have grass roots development just obviously not Eastern Suburbs locals. They have the Central Coast and that’s where a lot of players come from given how big, League, Tag and Touch are down there
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Yep that’s right and those $100K make work jobs I believe are stuff like - let’s say you’re Izzy Kelly, your job is to make appearances at corporate events and shake hands. If you’re a player for the Knights you may literally work a day job as a social worker or something. A few are employed by the club in some capacity but yeah they’re real jobs. Bo Vette Welsh is the club’s “Community Engagement Officer” or something like that.

This is why I give us no hope on the weekend. They’re too athletic, too fit. It’s literally like there’s 8 teams of primarily NSW Cup players and two NRL teams. That’s the disparity in training etc etc etc.

Jesse Southwell and Yasmin Clydsdale may be the only full time footy players at the club currently.

And I literally think we can’t compete because a lot of the money at Roosters, Broncos etc comes from external sources. It’s not just the club footing the bill. And the reality is that the women’s game is not, I believe, profitable right now. I’m pretty sure the Knights as a club are making a big investment in it but the choice has been made to invest in pathways, invest for the long haul, in anticipation of the NRL increasing the cap. Not trying to match the investment in the top 24 squad because I don’t think they can.

I think their thinking is that it will get to a point that the those inherent advantages the top two clubs have are equalised a bit by every player making enough money that it can be their full time job, and the Knights will be in position to reap the rewards of the development program in a way other clubs won’t. Our juniors will have went through a better development program, be more ready for the top grade, understand the game better, will defend better, etc. Clearly the lower grade teams are the best in NSW. But yeah until we can put all our top 24 players on full time wages and training loads it may not be worth watching lol. Not if Jesse goes. Come back in five years - the Knights five year plan.
 
Watch her Footy posted this. Had a look at off contract halves but can’t see anyone who’d fit the bill except maybe Maliepo but can’t see her leaving the Wahs.
 

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Right - thank you for the replies. Liking those for the detailed information, rather than liking the content.

A couple of follow ups:

"plus many of them play origin so that’s another $45k per year" - that wasn't in the salary cap primer you linked. Surely the womens game at this stage doesn't pay Origin wages that large? If they do, that would explain why people were so upset at some of Hilder's selections though..

"let’s say you’re Izzy Kelly, your job is to make appearances at corporate events and shake hands. If you’re a player for the Knights you may literally work a day job as a social worker or something" - I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but who is paying 100k for Izzy Kelly to come to events? Why have a club like the Roosters started investing (or crowdfunding) this kind of money more recently vs early season where we were the leaders in investing in the game?

I guess I just still don't understand why the landscape has changed so much - if this had been the approach of the big clubs even back in the marquee player days, we wouldn't have gotten Upton or Boyle. But now we're getting bid out of the water? Why?
 
Newygirl said:
Apparently Jesse getting $300k per year up there and her and Tamika are back together. Not sure what happens when they break up again
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Is it enough of an open secret now that we can all just say this is why Tamika left? And it wasn’t just some massive fumble from the club like people say?
 
MontyBrogan said:
Right - thank you for the replies. Liking those for the detailed information, rather than liking the content.

A couple of follow ups:

"plus many of them play origin so that’s another $45k per year" - that wasn't in the salary cap primer you linked. Surely the womens game at this stage doesn't pay Origin wages that large? If they do, that would explain why people were so upset at some of Hilder's selections though..

"let’s say you’re Izzy Kelly, your job is to make appearances at corporate events and shake hands. If you’re a player for the Knights you may literally work a day job as a social worker or something" - I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but who is paying 100k for Izzy Kelly to come to events? Why have a club like the Roosters started investing (or crowdfunding) this kind of money more recently vs early season where we were the leaders in investing in the game?

I guess I just still don't understand why the landscape has changed so much - if this had been the approach of the big clubs even back in the marquee player days, we wouldn't have gotten Upton or Boyle. But now we're getting bid out of the water? Why?
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I think the Knights may have forced their hand by doing that lol. The arms race started later. And we couldn’t compete with it.

But also put it this way: mentally sort all the players in the comp to “elite/rep calibre” and the ones that aren’t good enough that they’re going to get anything beyond the standard NRLW salary.

Every club has at least some players from that rep calibre basket but also there’s a clear discrepancy there. Visualise the two big clubs taking first dibs and taking the best players first, and getting more of them. And then every time new clubs go in they start biting out of every bowl *except* the two big clubs. Maybe they get a little nibble every now and again but by and large the runts are all eating from each other’s bowls.

Then think about the lower tier players and imagine them ranked “best” to “worst”. If you are the best player that’s not going to get extra money from any club, so it’s all kind of the same for you wherever you go - where do you want to play? Raiders? You wanna go to Canberra, do you? No. You probably want to play for one of the teams which is going to win.

That’s basically a summary of what’s happening. When there were fewer teams, everyone could have a solid core of rep players and depth behind that. The more teams get added the more it’ll be a case of the weak teams having like 2nd/3rd tier rep “stars” as their big names and like half a team who straight up shouldn’t be playing in the NRLW, they’re not good enough. Honestly so far the Knights have gotten off light and we do well because we can field a team mostly of girls who are actually good enough. It’s just there’s still a gap to us and the Big Two.
 
MontyBrogan said:
Right - thank you for the replies. Liking those for the detailed information, rather than liking the content.

A couple of follow ups:

"plus many of them play origin so that’s another $45k per year" - that wasn't in the salary cap primer you linked. Surely the womens game at this stage doesn't pay Origin wages that large? If they do, that would explain why people were so upset at some of Hilder's selections though..

"let’s say you’re Izzy Kelly, your job is to make appearances at corporate events and shake hands. If you’re a player for the Knights you may literally work a day job as a social worker or something" - I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but who is paying 100k for Izzy Kelly to come to events? Why have a club like the Roosters started investing (or crowdfunding) this kind of money more recently vs early season where we were the leaders in investing in the game?

I guess I just still don't understand why the landscape has changed so much - if this had been the approach of the big clubs even back in the marquee player days, we wouldn't have gotten Upton or Boyle. But now we're getting bid out of the water? Why?
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Yes Origin is $15k per match. So yes it makes a big difference being selected.

She’s earning that from the club. Politis is a billionaire and most of his mates are millionaires. You think paying a dozen NRLW players $100k is anything to them?

The CBA negotiated a couple years ago changed the cap situation. There’s no marquee spots that sit outside the cap. I’m assuming they thought it would level the comp out but it’s done the opposite. Plus they expanded too fast
 
It’s strange that the girls don’t realise or seem to care the effect of hoarding all the talent at two clubs will have.

Ultimately it’s going to come back and bite them on the *** if the NRL is losing more money to it because nobody from the other 10 teams care anymore.

What’s the point of winning comps if nobody watches or gives a ****.

I do still think the Wahs can be the exception and continue to grow because they have a whole country to themselves and they’ve got more fan support than anyone at the moment.
 
Newygirl said:
Yes Origin is $15k per match. So yes it makes a big difference being selected.

She’s earning that from the club. Politis is a billionaire and most of his mates are millionaires. You think paying a dozen NRLW players $100k is anything to them?

The CBA negotiated a couple years ago changed the cap situation. There’s no marquee spots that sit outside the cap. I’m assuming they thought it would level the comp out but it’s done the opposite. Plus they expanded too fast
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Yeah I didn’t literally mean that Isabelle Kelly is earning $100K being a keynote speaker, it’s more like it’s a trivial amount of money for Uncle Nick to source, whereas Wests Group is answerable to stakeholders in a way those clubs aren’t. So the job is something like “Club Ambassador” and the actual work they do is… uhhhh… kind of… ********? For the Knights, there has to actually be a business case for this kind of investment. If you work for the club you actually work for the club.

There is, probably, a bit of calculus to the decisions being made which some fans might not like:
- They already won a couple of comps by identifying a market inefficiency and capitalising on it. These premierships were a nice little PR boost and people liked it, but honestly finishing 5th in the men’s comp in 2023 probably was responsible for more of the good feeling around the place at that time. And when the men’s team sucks, the women’s team being good doesn’t actually “fix” how people feel about the club, they’re still kind of mad at it and think “basket case”. I think this raises a “how much do we actually want to shell out for this?” question.
- The Broncos & Roosters massively increased their investment in it. For these clubs, it’s a trivial investment. For us, it’s not, and if the Knights try to play the game that way, we’ll finish 3rd/4thish. We’d make finals every year and then not win.
- Investing in grassroots/development is 1. harmonious with increased development focus/funding in the men’s game 2. Yields a steady flow of good/reliable players who are NRLW ready and have a high level of system understanding and 3. Likely also results in us making finals for the next few years then not winning.

And then yes I think the theory they’re working on is *eventually* things will equalise a bit, but the average Knights player will have gone through a better development process, the team will defend better than others, players will understand their roles better, etc etc etc. I think honestly this is already the case but right now what’s the answer to a bench with Lenarduzzi and Sauaso on it and a backline which turns every offload they throw into a huge line break or try simply because the players are just too strong, too fast, for the team they’re playing against yo keep up with?
 
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