I doubt an industrial court gives a rats about the nrls competitive balance.
NRL General Recruitment and Retention
- Thread starter Celticman98
- Start date
Newygirl
Darren Albert
Woah, woah, woah, slow down! Are you saying there might be more important things than rugba leeg?
SORRY, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Your question was whether he has a case to take the NRL to court, the answer is "would the hypothetical plaintiff have a cause of action that creates the right to sue". A breach of legal duty from the hypothetical defendant causing damage to the plaintiff.
What would it be based on? The NRL has the position of "Salary Cap Auditor" in the CBA. The actual text of the CBA is not publicly available, but it's been stated enough times that we know for sure now that "fairness" (however defined) is one of the criteria which goes into enforcing salary cap compliance. If the playing contracts Hudson Young signs are under a CBA where the competitive balance of the league in question is a going concern as to the validity of contracts - which it is, it kind of has to be, because otherwise on what basis could the league validly punish a team for salary cap breaches? - then yes, the industrial court would care. You would have to be very confident in the outcome before considering legal action here, and I tend to think that an Origin calibre forward in his prime going somewhere else for $200K less would be something the Auditor is perfectly within his rights to not sign off on.
Let's say Hudson did go to court and won though, gee that opens up a can of worms. You probably have clubs suing the NRL then. This tax free money thing is so dumb but maybe the dumbass clubs should have just agreed to the new clubs having 25% more cap space. Morons.
krustykraz
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Jack Wighton was offered $1.1mil from the Raiders but signed with the Bunnies for $800k, how come that was allowed?
I really don't like how the NRL chooses to enforce rules sometimes but then let's the exact same thing happen other times.
The same thing happens with the refs and certain rules.
I really don't like how the NRL chooses to enforce rules sometimes but then let's the exact same thing happen other times.
The same thing happens with the refs and certain rules.
Les Misérables
Mark Hughes
The Bunnies weren't leveraging some inequitable advantage (uniquely granted to them by the NRL) when they offered Wighton the $800k.
The NRL are stepping in to prevent the Cheifs from taking advantage of the unique situation the NRL has put in place intended to maximise tax benefits. The rule isn't intended to allow the Cheifs to pay unders for players knowing they can out compete other clubs on net value to the player, that's a bastardisation of the rule
Buzz and Flanno jumping on MMM calling it ‘their mail’ was so funny.
Journalists literally reading stitch up fake Twitter rumours lol
Without getting into too much legal trouble the real reason why Wighton left is the devil in the details…
bremsstrahlung
Scott Conley
Alleged that Munster has rejected Melbourne’s contract offer - 2 year extension for 1.5M.
He’s going to test market.
Broncos one of the clubs expected to be in for him.
I’m not a conspiracist, but wonder if Munster was ever mentioned when Broncos were dealing with Anastasia (I love that it autocorrects Anasta) and Pezet.
Of course, Munster is no longer managed by Anasta though….
Sam Walker also free to negotiate November 1 with links to Brisbane.
I feel a little bad at how badly Pezet has had his career managed at this point…just a little.
He’s going to test market.
Broncos one of the clubs expected to be in for him.
I’m not a conspiracist, but wonder if Munster was ever mentioned when Broncos were dealing with Anastasia (I love that it autocorrects Anasta) and Pezet.
Of course, Munster is no longer managed by Anasta though….
Sam Walker also free to negotiate November 1 with links to Brisbane.
I feel a little bad at how badly Pezet has had his career managed at this point…just a little.
Just thinking out loud here after the Cheifs/Hudson Young thing. What happens with players who go to market on November 1? Could a team like the Tigers make a massive offer for someone, who then has his market value set at that, freezing other teams out of making a bid for that player? Are we going to see top players end up at bottom clubs because teams can't match the bid? Will players not want to test the market moving forward for fear at ending up at a bottom feeder with no one else to help them out?
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
Ideally something a bit more thought could have been put into before everyone signed off on the tax free money thing lol.
Would have been so much simpler just to have given them an extra allowance under the cap. That's how the AFL did it and it didn't result in those expansion clubs instantly becoming powerhouses. And then they needn't have worried about the massive distortion caused by the cap free money; every time the Chiefs outbid another club for a player, they actually did it by... offering more money, on the cap. No confusion. No cap auditor having to put their thumb on the scale every time a the Chiefs offer $200K less before tax but actually $300K more after tax. Etc.
This is doing my head in. What if a Knights player say, is valued at 700k by the club and that offer is made. Speculation from the 360 mob is he might be worth a mill so he tests the open market. The only concrete offer he gets is from the Tigers at 800k. He weighs up the pros and cons, with cost of living, moving to Sydney and the playing squads and decides the Tigers aren't really an option so comes back to the Knights to accept their offer. But now he has a nominal cap value of 800k which takes no other factors in to it? The Knights say sorry, can't fit you in at 800k, the only option left is the one he feels is no option at all because of a dollar value.
And how do tpas now work? A player is offered a mill by one club so has that nominal value. Another club offers 900k with 200k of tpas on top, but that still goes on their cap at 1mill?
Money isn't the only deciding factor a player has when choosing a club. It doesn't take lifestyle in to account. It doesn't take taking less money to join a strong squad in to account. It doesn't take wanting to move closer the family in to account. All valid reasons to go somewhere for less $$.
And how do tpas now work? A player is offered a mill by one club so has that nominal value. Another club offers 900k with 200k of tpas on top, but that still goes on their cap at 1mill?
Money isn't the only deciding factor a player has when choosing a club. It doesn't take lifestyle in to account. It doesn't take taking less money to join a strong squad in to account. It doesn't take wanting to move closer the family in to account. All valid reasons to go somewhere for less $$.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
I think the way it works is like this:
Player A is weighing up $700K to stay at his current club, or a $800K offer from another club (not PNG). He decides to stay at his current club. It's presented to the cap auditor. He says, "Yeah that seems fine, it's vaguely within the same ball park, and there are reasons players want to stay at their junior club."
Player B is weighing up $800K to stay at his current club (really a touch under $500K after tax), or a $700K offer from PNG ($700K after tax). The cap auditor cringes. He grits his teeth and does a sharp intake of breath. He says "aw geez" and "what have we done?". And then he says "no you can only go to PNG if PNG matches the offer, because, whoops, whoopsie. Oh no".
Hope this helps.
Player A is weighing up $700K to stay at his current club, or a $800K offer from another club (not PNG). He decides to stay at his current club. It's presented to the cap auditor. He says, "Yeah that seems fine, it's vaguely within the same ball park, and there are reasons players want to stay at their junior club."
Player B is weighing up $800K to stay at his current club (really a touch under $500K after tax), or a $700K offer from PNG ($700K after tax). The cap auditor cringes. He grits his teeth and does a sharp intake of breath. He says "aw geez" and "what have we done?". And then he says "no you can only go to PNG if PNG matches the offer, because, whoops, whoopsie. Oh no".
Hope this helps.
HarVeeGee13
Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus
In the alternate world where PNG just had say a $16 million salary cap:
The player's current club offers $800K (really just under $500K). PNG says "this is a guy we really want, we have to go get him" and offers $1.2 million (really a touch under $700K after tax). Is it very close to being the exact same thing, functionally? Yes. But there's no mental gymnastics the auditor has to do here. To get the big name player they wanted, they had to dip into their spending power and overpay a bit, but they got him. I don't think it ****s the player market because clearly the motive of every player for going to PNG is money, so they're only going to get guys if they pay a premium. But with the way they've set it up now, they *can* pay more to every player in the comp *without* paying a premium, unless the cap auditor puts his thumb on the scale and makes a lot of calls which are going to strike punters as being pretty bloody arbitrary.
The player's current club offers $800K (really just under $500K). PNG says "this is a guy we really want, we have to go get him" and offers $1.2 million (really a touch under $700K after tax). Is it very close to being the exact same thing, functionally? Yes. But there's no mental gymnastics the auditor has to do here. To get the big name player they wanted, they had to dip into their spending power and overpay a bit, but they got him. I don't think it ****s the player market because clearly the motive of every player for going to PNG is money, so they're only going to get guys if they pay a premium. But with the way they've set it up now, they *can* pay more to every player in the comp *without* paying a premium, unless the cap auditor puts his thumb on the scale and makes a lot of calls which are going to strike punters as being pretty bloody arbitrary.
I personally think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill with this
Any club, say the Storm, offering more money is what currently happens every time a players contract is ending. The player then decides if the extra money is worth going to the new club
The nominal cap value has been in place for years now as well. At the risk of going down a rabbit hole and getting off topic, It’s what was used when Ben Hunt left the Dragons and signed for the Broncos. Different situation I know and still seemed like the Broncos rorted it some how
I think this is a situation that only affects the PNG Chiefs as they can effectively offer players less money but the players will actually earn more money because of the no tax. The NRL seem to be on top of it, that’s why I don’t think it’s a non issue
But that is the exact thing. The storm categorically do not offer extras to get players there. They offer a chance at probably the best set up in league over the past two decades without having to pay a premium for players. (Penrith have obviously gone past Melbourne the last five years or so).