NRL General Recruitment and Retention

[Les Misérables]

The only thing that would stop them is if they used their unmatched financial might to make an overrated bum like Jarome Luai their marquee player for some reason.

That's the hardest part, a good spine. And yea, they're not off to a good start lol

Though, again, given their 47% value advantage, they can get away with a garbage marquee signing, or two, without it really effecting things the way it would any other team

 

[HarVeeGee13]

If they get Cleary or Sam Walker, then yes I will make this face:

Likewise with off contract forwards like Xavier Willison and Tallis Duncan.

As it stands they're hoovering up mercenaries and/or older guys who've made sacrifices to win already and are just looking to get paid. So we'll see.

 

[Jon Snow]

Yeah it’s funny, people getting excited about the PNG roster. Everyone they’ve bought will be well beyond their best years. Luai is getting worse, Too on the decline, Watson will be older too. Even Lomax and Manu will be coming from soft rugby comps. Reminds of dragons previously with Holmes, gutherson, Klemmer, Cook, all good players but best years were behind them when signed. Look how they’re going this year.

 

[Seano]

If they get Cleary or Sam Walker, then yes I will make this face:

I still don't think it matters who they sign.

From year 2 onwards (if not sooner), cabin fever is going to run rampant through this team...blokes with golden handcuffs who don't want to be there any more but can't leave because the money on offer elsewhere in the NRL is just nowhere near the same will be a serious perennial problem.

They'd better get their development right early.

 

[HarVeeGee13]

The real thing I’m not sure people are 100% grasping is that the tax free money doesn’t allow them to therefore pay guys below their market rate. The salary cap auditor won’t allow that, we have that straight from Chammas’ mouth. To get Luai they had to pay exactly what he was earning at Wests. To’o, they had to match - really beat, but match in terms of cap allocation - what Penrith were offering. Etc.

If they get Joey Manu, they have to pay his NRL market value, which is dictated by stuff like most recent salary, any competing offers, etc… so it’s $800K minimum.

So if they want an all-conquering behemoth of a squad, they have to get there the same way other clubs do - get guys who massively outplay the value of their contract. Which means identifying guys they can get now for $300K who’ll provide the value of a $600K player. They haven’t done that so far and Chammas has stated that’s not even his goal. The young players they’re betting on will be PNG locals they shipped off to the London Broncos to learn & develop there, before they come back on development deals.

They’re like any other club in that there’s only so many players they can hand out these $600K - $1.2 million salaries to. Trying to build a team to win comps is not actually the reason this thing exists. They want an NRL club where the majority of the player base is PNG born players in 10 years. That’s what the government is bankrolling.

 

[R_A]

They’ve already overpaid for Connor Watson and no one’s giving Zac Lomax what he was on before after the stink he kicked up leaving R360, also factoring in not having played league for two years his market value is probably less then what he got.
AJ factoring in age/decline and a major injury also probably got more, considering he probably would have gotten less from his next contract from South’s (even less then someone like Marzhew for example) but he’s probably gonna take it year by year, and the dollars will offset that.
To’o and Luai are yep probably the same. But unsurprisingly the deals are all shorter term 2-3 years which probably offset the dollars a bit so for some they will have to offer a bit of an incentive. I don’t think they have a choice regardless.

Outside of the top 13 and maybe top 17 the roster is gonna resemble the NSW Cup team.

 

[Owey]

The real thing I’m not sure people are 100% grasping is that the tax free money doesn’t allow them to therefore pay guys below their market rate. The salary cap auditor won’t allow that, we have that straight from Chammas’ mouth. To get Luai they had to pay exactly what he was earning at Wests. To’o, they had to match - really beat, but match in terms of cap allocation - what Penrith were offering. Etc.

If they get Joey Manu, they have to pay his NRL market value, which is dictated by stuff like most recent salary, any competing offers, etc… so it’s $800K minimum.

So if they want an all-conquering behemoth of a squad, they have to get there the same way other clubs do - get guys who massively outplay the value of their contract. Which means identifying guys they can get now for $300K who’ll provide the value of a $600K player. They haven’t done that so far and Chammas has stated that’s not even his goal. The young players they’re betting on will be PNG locals they shipped off to the London Broncos to learn & develop there, before they come back on development deals.

They’re like any other club in that there’s only so many players they can hand out these $600K - $1.2 million salaries to. Trying to build a team to win comps is not actually the reason this thing exists. They want an NRL club where the majority of the player base is PNG born players in 10 years. That’s what the government is bankrolling.

I wonder how that works if they offer someone 300k compared to his existing club offering 325k. In real terms, that player makes about 175k after tax in oz, so is like 125k short if he isn't allowed to go to png. That's a big difference to that particular player.

 

[Solway90]

The real thing I’m not sure people are 100% grasping is that the tax free money doesn’t allow them to therefore pay guys below their market rate. The salary cap auditor won’t allow that, we have that straight from Chammas’ mouth. To get Luai they had to pay exactly what he was earning at Wests. To’o, they had to match - really beat, but match in terms of cap allocation - what Penrith were offering. Etc.

If they get Joey Manu, they have to pay his NRL market value, which is dictated by stuff like most recent salary, any competing offers, etc… so it’s $800K minimum.

So if they want an all-conquering behemoth of a squad, they have to get there the same way other clubs do - get guys who massively outplay the value of their contract. Which means identifying guys they can get now for $300K who’ll provide the value of a $600K player. They haven’t done that so far and Chammas has stated that’s not even his goal. The young players they’re betting on will be PNG locals they shipped off to the London Broncos to learn & develop there, before they come back on development deals.

They’re like any other club in that there’s only so many players they can hand out these $600K - $1.2 million salaries to. Trying to build a team to win comps is not actually the reason this thing exists. They want an NRL club where the majority of the player base is PNG born players in 10 years. That’s what the government is bankrolling.

Have you got sources for this? I am
not saying you are wrong but players have the right to select which offer to agree to and clubs can offer what they wish to..surely the nrl can’t intervene in that? “Market value” is determined by and agreed to by who?

an example of how it can be gamed could be contract A 1m per year contract B 950k and contract C (chiefs) offer 900k (tax free). The player would be paid less but make more. If you save 50 - 100k on 10 + players you theoretically saved up to 1m plus to go towards other players because you can afford to offer less and have the offer accepted

It still can be easily taken advantage of and provides significant advantage. I agree that PNG needed some help but it should have been limited to 5 or so spots to allow marquee signings but the poor bears can’t sign any marquees but PNG have no problem which shows you the advantage they have.

 

[HarVeeGee13]

Have you got sources for this? I am
not saying you are wrong but players have the right to select which offer to agree to and clubs can offer what they wish to..surely the nrl can’t intervene in that? “Market value” is determined by and agreed to by who?

an example could be contract A 1m per year contract B 950k and contract C (chiefs) offer 900k (tax free). The player would be paid less but make more.

It still can be easily taken advantage of and provides significant advantage. I agree that PNG needed some help but it should have been limited to 5 or so spots to allow marquee signings but the poor bears can’t sign any marquees but PNG have no problem which shows you the advantage they have.

It’s not a new rule which pertains specifically to the Chiefs, remember all the back and forth about Lomax’s deal when he was trying to change clubs, he couldn’t take less money to move. Or when one of the Saifitis, I forget which, offered to take a cut on his salary - it’s not allowed. The rules are very very tight to prevent cap shenanigans.

In terms of those competing offers, players can accept a smaller deal (to be clear: not *a lot smaller*) on a new contract to stay at their existing club, but my understanding was that, for example, Dylan Brown’s Parra contract was going to hit $1.1 million starting this season I think, so we actually *had to* offer that much at least for the NRL to sign off on him joining us.

And yeah the cap auditor estimates player value and won’t sign off on contracts not commensurate with that, generally. Once guys hit a certain age their market value is considered to have dropped and they’ll let the club lop a fair bit off his deal. But one interesting wrinkle of this is just being around longer and more well known means a player is more valuable, automatically. The cap auditor is not approving, for example, a $600K salary for Joey Manu. He was regarded as the best centre in the game, he’s a golden boot winner, etc.

To give an example relevant to us, let’s say Jacob Saifiti does us a favour to give back to the club he loves & accepts a little haircut to keep the team together. Great! But if we send a contract for $450K to NRL HQ, I think it’s as good as certain that they wouldn’t sign off on it unless he’d literally just come off multiple full season long injuries. A haircut looks more like maybe $650K.

 

[Billy]

I don't know why people think these players will have a terrible life in PNG.
These guys will be filthy rich and money goes a long, long way in PNG.

As I've said before, I know a lot of people who have worked in PNG in healthcare. They were reasonably well paid and lived like millionaires in gated communities, with servants doing everything for them - but their pay would be a fraction of what these players will be getting.
A minimum wage top 30 player will literally be able to afford to have servants doing all their cooking, cleaning - everything. They'll just have to train and keep themselves amused.

Added to that, every second week they'll be off on an all expenses paid trip to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc

 

[MontyBrogan]

It’s not a new rule which pertains specifically to the Chiefs, remember all the back and forth about Lomax’s deal when he was trying to change clubs, he couldn’t take less money to move. Or when one of the Saifitis, I forget which, offered to take a cut on his salary - it’s not allowed. The rules are very very tight to prevent cap shenanigans.

In terms of those competing offers, players can accept a smaller deal (to be clear: not *a lot smaller*) on a new contract to stay at their existing club, but my understanding was that, for example, Dylan Brown’s Parra contract was going to hit $1.1 million starting this season I think, so we actually *had to* offer that much at least for the NRL to sign off on him joining us.

And yeah the cap auditor estimates player value and won’t sign off on contracts not commensurate with that, generally. Once guys hit a certain age their market value is considered to have dropped and they’ll let the club lop a fair bit off his deal. But one interesting wrinkle of this is just being around longer and more well known means a player is more valuable, automatically. The cap auditor is not approving, for example, a $600K salary for Joey Manu. He was regarded as the best centre in the game, he’s a golden boot winner, etc.

To give an example relevant to us, let’s say Jacob Saifiti does us a favour to give back to the club he loves & accepts a little haircut to keep the team together. Great! But if we send a contract for $450K to NRL HQ, I think it’s as good as certain that they wouldn’t sign off on it unless he’d literally just come off multiple full season long injuries. A haircut looks more like maybe $650K.

HVG, I love ya - but if you really think a PVL-run competition that changes the interpretations of their own on-field rulebook on the fly during the season, is actually this committed to 'letter of the law', I have a bridge to sell you.

They have introduced team-specific differential rules to try and level the playing field for a team that would otherwise struggle to sign a real NRL roster. The constant rebalancing of set restarts is the right mental model - they will keep adjusting the cap interpretations for PNG until they get them to mid-table.

 

[HarVeeGee13]

The on-field rules for the NRL season are solely the discretion of the ARLC. The salary cap & player conditions are governed jointly by the NRL and the RLPA. They landed on the tax free salaries thing because that could be done via federal budget tax law amendments. That doesn't mean PVL can just wave his hand and say "oh also, PNG gets to just cheat the cap in terms of the actual size of the salaries they pay". There would be full-blown revolt if that happened.

And I don't think that would be necessary, they probably will be about a mid table side. What I'm saying is simply that their advantages aren't an infinite money glitch like people seem to think. They will be massively helpful in nabbing top end talent, but we're not about to see an all star team come in and stomp everyone into a mudhole. If they get Hudson Young, it will be because $1 million from them goes farther than $1 million from the Raiders, not because they can offer $750K but outbid them.