Our next head coach

[usa3617]

Titans and Tigers would be worst. Dragons also never seem to have any success. Maybe I’d put us on the next tier with Cowboys, Souths, Eels, Cowboys, Sea Eagles. Success has been pretty fleeting in the last few years, but there’s stuff there for a decent coach to work with, and quite a long way from the basket case category.

Warriors probably showing the path for us, if we get the combination right. There is a route to success.

Tigers are now probably closer to success than we are. They've made improvements this year whilst we have gone backwards big time. Admittedly buying 1/4 of the 4 peat Penrith spine is a large part of that improvement, as opposed to any genius coaching on Benji Marshall's part.

Having a solid roster to work with is important for any good coach. But the Warriors are the perfect example of what a good coach can do even with a mid roster. You could argue that the warriors are not even a top 8 roster. Yet they are on track to make 2 top 4 finishes in the first 3 years under Webster. Their reserve grade has lost 2 games all year and they have won Harold Matts 2 years in a row. Conversely, our pathways have withered and died over the AOB years.

 

[cheese]

I’m not sure why Brad Arthur’s “unwanted finals record” continued to be a black mark against him when his team made a grand final immediately after that

Considering AOB will be gone after 6 seasons I looked into Brad Arthurs record after his 1st 6 seasons at Parramatta. They are quite similar.

AOB
- 4 finals appearances for 1 win and 4 losses
- best regular season finish of 5th
- 43.3% wins in 143 games including finals
- potentially 1 wooden spoon 2025

Arthur
- 2 finals appearances for 1 win and 3 losses (would be 3 but lost points in 2016 for salary cap rorting)
- best regular season finish of 4th
- 47.9% wins in 148 games including finals
- 1 wooden spoon 2018

 

[HarVeeGee13]

Tigers are now probably closer to success than we are. They've made improvements this year whilst we have gone backwards big time. Admittedly buying 1/4 of the 4 peat Penrith spine is a large part of that improvement, as opposed to any genius coaching on Benji Marshall's part.

Having a solid roster to work with is important for any good coach. But the Warriors are the perfect example of what a good coach can do even with a mid roster. You could argue that the warriors are not even a top 8 roster. Yet they are on track to make 2 top 4 finishes in the first 3 years under Webster. Their reserve grade has lost 2 games all year and they have won Harold Matts 2 years in a row. Conversely, our pathways have withered and died over the AOB years.

I’d be willing to bet we outperform the Tigers under a new coach next year.

 

[jamesgould]

Tigers are now probably closer to success than we are. They've made improvements this year whilst we have gone backwards big time. Admittedly buying 1/4 of the 4 peat Penrith spine is a large part of that improvement, as opposed to any genius coaching on Benji Marshall's part.

Having a solid roster to work with is important for any good coach. But the Warriors are the perfect example of what a good coach can do even with a mid roster. You could argue that the warriors are not even a top 8 roster. Yet they are on track to make 2 top 4 finishes in the first 3 years under Webster. Their reserve grade has lost 2 games all year and they have won Harold Matts 2 years in a row. Conversely, our pathways have withered and died over the AOB years.

We’ll see with the Tigers if the improvement continues, but the last 5-10 years is what I’m referring to, they have been chaos.

 

[EASBay17]

on roster alone we are in a better spot next year, if we keep our defensive resolve and structures in place that we saw for all bar the last month we should be able to bounce straight back into the 8. Its been a diabolical year no doubt with a multitude of things that when wrong. But as a club as strange as it sounds i think we are on an upward trajectory.
If we can keep our key positions on the field like 2023 with additions of mooney and potentially smith and the class brown brings i think there is plenty of reason to have some optimisim moving forward.

 

[jamesgould]

Considering AOB will be gone after 6 seasons I looked into Brad Arthurs record after his 1st 6 seasons at Parramatta. They are quite similar.

AOB
- 4 finals appearances for 1 win and 4 losses
- best regular season finish of 5th
- 43.3% wins in 143 games including finals
- potentially 1 wooden spoon 2025

Arthur
- 2 finals appearances for 1 win and 3 losses (would be 3 but lost points in 2016 for salary cap rorting)
- best regular season finish of 4th
- 47.9% wins in 148 games including finals
- 1 wooden spoon 2018

Not that it’s relevant to finding a new coach for us, but HVG saying we’re closest to the Cowboys in comparison has got me thinking Payten is AOB’s closest comparison too. Both took over from Nathan Brown (Payten at the Warriors), had good initial success which made it seem like the club had turned a corner and was on an upward trajectory. Both awkward and unimpressive with the media. Both seem to be too hard nosed and not popular with players. And both have seen their fortunes decline as they enjoy a lengthy tenure.

The moral is - try to take over from Nathan Brown as a coach, anyone will look good in comparison.

 

[usa3617]

on roster alone we are in a better spot next year, if we keep our defensive resolve and structures in place that we saw for all bar the last month we should be able to bounce straight back into the 8. Its been a diabolical year no doubt with a multitude of things that when wrong. But as a club as strange as it sounds i think we are on an upward trajectory.
If we can keep our key positions on the field like 2023 with additions of mooney and potentially smith and the class brown brings i think there is plenty of reason to have some optimisim moving forward.

I like your optimism. But I think we are at least 2 middles short of being competitive for the 8 next year. Nothing has really been done to address that deficiency. We have been beaten up through the middle every week and that has taken space away from the strike in the backline.

 

[waynesworld]

Our fortunes are pretty directly correlated to players staying on the park as are most teams. It is no excuse for how poor we have played, but if you’d said before Round 1 Gagai is going to play 1/3 of the season at fullback, Fletcher Hunt will play half the games and we’ll debut 5-6 different props, I think everyone would’ve said we’ll get the Spoon.

New coach will improve us no doubt, because there is no possible way we could play as tense and rigid as we currently do. Just hope they also get much, much luckier with injuries than AOB ever really has.

 

[EASBay17]

I like your optimism. But I think we are at least 2 middles short of being competitive for the 8 next year. Nothing has really been done to address that deficiency. We have been beaten up through the middle every week and that has taken space away from the strike in the backline.

Mooney and psaulo are a step in the right direction.

 

[mudmarn]

After AOB media conference iam not sure Green is leading the race for the job.
Was saying how much is involved in being a head coach. Its not just about on the field stuff. Said its something to think about if your a young coach comming thru.

 

[Frank McWilliams]

Yes f/row with JSaf, Frizell, Mooney and Psaulo is good and young blokes coming through showing potential such as Crouch, ESL, Hopwood and Sullivan we are looking better

 

[Wicket]

Can someone explain how Arthur or Holbrook is whipping up such a frenzy? I’m just trying to find stats on how many grand finals they’ve cleaned up together but having trouble?……..
View attachment 7736
Yes Arthur has a better win loss record but he has other unwanted records too.

View attachment 7735

I wouldn’t solely look at Arthur and Holbrook’s winning percentage to gauge if they might be a good coach or not. You have to try and look at the whole picture. Look at what might have contributed to their poor records

I look more towards their structures and playing style, was there development and improvement, things like that

Both were at clubs that at the time were complete basket cases.

Parra had constant board trouble and infighting and the Titans have big cultural issues, that Tino has called out since Des was sacked

Don’t forget, people were saying Ivan Cleary would never win a comp after he’d coached a certain number of games (can’t remember the number)…. now he’s won 4 in a row

 

[Wicket]

I’ve been thinking about what criteria our next coach should have

- Have head coaching experience either NRL or Superleague
- Willing to let Ponga play to his strengths. He is a free spirit and I really think putting too much structure around him detracts from how he plays best, playing to his instincts and popping up where he sees an opportunity
- Coach to the players strengths, then create a game plan around that
- Have us playing a more attacking and exciting style of play
- Engage with the Newcastle community. I don’t think it has to be someone from Newcastle, they just have to understand Newcastle
- They need to be tough, not afraid to make the tough calls and will hold the players to account. No more of the “I’ve made first grade” entitlement attitude that seems to hang around the club
- Have a good report with the media (will help with recruitment if media talk us up or talk positively about us. Also will help with getting ref decisions in our favour. It’s no coincidence that the teams the media like get the rub of the green)

 

[jamesgould]

I’d almost say the opposite with Ponga, the more structured the better. He really excels when he can get in a one on one position with a defender and they’re forced to make a decision. Something we don’t really get to enough with him. But give him some unstructured play - kick returns for example - and he looks a bit lost. Or ball playing, it can work at times, but more often than not it doesn’t go well.

I would like to see us get him in those one on one positions more often, and not just when he’s planted in the backline one spot inside Best.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

I’d love to see our coach just setup a good attacking structure. Sharpe on the right, brown on the left with Ponga sweeping out the back or supporting through the middle.

Not sure who our hooker will be, but would love to see Friz or Crokes start at lock, and then have Crossland play lock after 20 mins. Similar to how Dyl Walker, Kurt Mann, Loiero, play. This is the best modern attacking structure, and Crossland is great in that middle field distributor role.

For all the talk about Brown, I do think he is a great runner, and straightens and holds the defence really well. Which will be great for Ponga, something we’ve lacked for years. Cogger is awful at this, among most things, and Hastings has just become to slow.

Swap Ponga and Sharpe and your on the money, I don't think I've ever seen Ponga looking to be a support player ever.

Rest sounds good.

 

[Wicket]

I’d almost say the opposite with Ponga, the more structured the better. He really excels when he can get in a one on one position with a defender and they’re forced to make a decision. Something we don’t really get to enough with him. But give him some unstructured play - kick returns for example - and he looks a bit lost. Or ball playing, it can work at times, but more often than not it doesn’t go well.

I would like to see us get him in those one on one positions more often, and not just when he’s planted in the backline one spot inside Best.

I just think too much structure constrains him to the point he confuses himself and doesn’t trust himself

I do agree some structure is required to get him into those one on one positions, but to me that’s more on our halves getting Ponga into those positions so he can do his thing

It might be as simple as a new voice who can simplify things for him

 

[HarVeeGee13]

I think James is dead on. This has been the recurring issue with Ponga too. I will say he’s incredibly dangerous on kick returns but that’s mostly just because he’s liable to make a clean break, but yeah otherwise he’s way more a guy who thrives in structure than an improvisational player. For me he’s almost a reverse Reece Walsh. Ben Hunt at 6 and Reece at 1 often looked clunky because Ben wanted to park on his inside and tee him up; Reece seems constrained by that sort of structure and thrived alongside Ezra, who’s also a very ad lib instinctual player.

I wouldn’t say “Ponga has no instinctual footy in him” (it’s there, but not consistently, and I think he is better at that stuff when the baseline stuff in his game is going well, gives him confidence). But I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his periods of top top top tier form came playing outside a half parked inside him on his left who has good organisational ability. And he’s struggled when the half who most frequently posted up on the left has been someone like Kurt Mann or Fletcher, and he’s trying to do some thing where he’s alternating between first & second receiver with them. At best he seems to help their game totally at the expense of his own.

The issue is there are also problems if the guy on his inside presents no running threat or there’s nothing on the other side of the field for the defence to worry about (eg Dom Young leaving seeming to totally **** us up in 2024, Fletcher Sharpe’s pace on the right wing seeming to fix it). I thought that getting a dynamic runner like Fletcher inside Kalyn would help heaps but it didn’t because they couldn’t get in sync, Fletcher can’t read the defensive line and make good decisions in structure as it stands.

Cos yeah obviously if you build your attack around getting Kalyn into certain positions, it becomes predictable. But a team can have predictable, repeatable attack and still be really good in attack (eg Souths, a lot of Roosters teams), and a team can be very improvisational in attack but have bad attack (Canberra every year between 2017 and 2024). The difference is in execution.

You want to have success with Ponga, 1. Get good at teeing him up in his pet positions, where there may not be a single more dangerous player in the game, and 2. Figure out how to set up the side so there are other things to think about & the defence can’t cheat off of purely to shut down Kalyn.

The “not cheating off of” point is important - defences literally do their numbers “wrong” purely to stop Kalyn getting wide 3 on 3’s and 4 on 4’s. That kind of thing is why we’ve seen Joey say he wants us to find a super dynamic running 9: that kind of very different look for the offence which can take advantage of the kind of cheating defences do to contain KP.

 

[mullenmagic]

Telegraph links Matt King, John Morris, Dean Young as names the Knights will gauge interest on in addition to the ones more widely being talked about. Says Brad Arthur won't be in the running.

Courier Mail reporting Trent Barrett is not in contention despite being linked yesterday. Also reporting McDermott is in talks to join Hannay at the Titans.

 

[krustykraz]

Telegraph links Matt King, John Morris, Dean Young as names the Knights will gauge interest on in addition to the ones more widely being talked about. Says Brad Arthur won't be in the running.

Courier Mail reporting Trent Barrett is not in contention despite being linked yesterday. Also reporting McDermott is in talks to join Hannay at the Titans.

McDermott leaving could be bad for our defence

 

[Thieves Like Us]

Crawley throwing Cordner and the Johns brothers into the ring. Both very unlikely imo. https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/f2a27d1cc4ba6e2e809c1dd81e56e0b9