Nathan Brown discussion

Beaumont said:
What cheeses me off ? Over the last couple of years in press conferences when 1 of the journalists suggests 1 of the younger players that have been here for a few years had a great game, Brown can never just say "yes he was very good today". It's always (for example) Daniel just needs to get more consistent or Dan's got a few things away from the field he needs to work on. When asked about Levi's game on Sunday he played politician by speaking for a few minutes and saying SFA. How about just agree the kids had a good game and address any issues behind closed doors. When asked about the older guys his answer is always "that's why we got him here" or "that's what happens when come from a good system".
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The Knights were well coached this week and we cant just say well done to Brownie? We have to find things in his press conference we dont like?

Nah I agree with you. He probably wants to keep the young blokes focused and not getting ahead of themselves. But i dont think it would hurt to give them a wrap in the presser.
 
Kurriboy said:
How many years does it take to get our system right and not act like we are the poor unfortunate knights.
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I think I heard Gus say 9 years. He had a five year plan at panthers and stayed even longer. I heard other commentators say at least 5 years.

No way you change a club culture in 3-4 years especially in the situation we were in.
 
Billy said:
That's not how good coaches go about their business.
In fact, it's how Brown tries to do things.
Good coaches like Bellamy, Bennett and Robinson convince players that they are genuinely trying to make the players the best they can be, and the players respond, because everyone actually wants to do well - especially guys who have got themselves up to NRL standard by their own efforts.

You know who responds well to being bossed, bullied and threatened with repercussions? - no one.
You know who responds well to having people take a genuine interest in them doing well? - everyone.
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Not to labor the point Billy, but here is more of Bellamy "encouraging" his players to be their best selves. Totally in a non bullying, non threatening way.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/c...s/news-story/7c34b34e672a54fc720034f87a1e5d3a\

“That’s one thing I think we’ve been pretty strong at over the past couple of years, but after the last couple of weeks I’m starting to doubt if this group has got that,” Bellamy said.

“And we better find that or I’ll be finding some new players.”
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Pearce has said Brown has a spray in him, but with Brown he seems a very much more laid back coaching style. I can't recall seeing him upset/angry once in his tenure here.

I do not believe the Brown coaching style is to demand things, and bully players as you say.
 
Kurriboy said:
Not to labor the point Billy, but here is more of Bellamy "encouraging" his players to be their best selves. Totally in a non bullying, non threatening way.
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Bellamy has created that culture where players are held accountable every week whether it's a win or loss or whether you've played 50 or 300 games. He had admitted himself in his book where he stuffed up their preparation when they lost those games in 2012 but still won the comp. That's the culture that's hard to replicate even when your losing. No one is above it not even your senior players.

He has that culture that players like Dallas Johnson who are hard on themselves even when they have a motm performance that he admitted he wouldn't go too hard on blokes like him because he knew they would be harsher on themselves.

Minus the wrestlmania and injuring players give me that culture any day of the week...anyone who thinks that's bad or bullying probably believes in the easter bunny
 
Damo Levy said:
I think I heard Gus say 9 years. He had a five year plan at panthers and stayed even longer. I heard other commentators say at least 5 years.

No way you change a club culture in 3-4 years especially in the situation we were in.
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Other then the first two years where Ivan was there where they were projected to be very bad because they were cleaning house the Panthers made the finals every year bar one and that was because of a horro injury toll. After that 03-04 years they only made the finals once and that was as most people noted a fluke.
Think they are on the right track
 
Personally I'm more than happy to give him until the end of the year. To me, it looked like we just lacked confidence in those first few weeks. Not sure why ... we also seemed to be getting bullied a lot by opposition teams - faster line-speed and more aggression in the tackles.

So happy it's turned around now, but either way I'd have been sticking with Brown this year. There's no decent replacements anywhere at this time in the season, and I don't think his coaching is the problem. It's down to the players, I think ... against the Warriors showed the tactics are there behind the scenes, it's up to the players to go out and execute.

Personally I feel the non-angry, communicative style of coaching is most often going to be more effective than someone who goes off their nut every time we're behind.
 
Absolutely. The likelihood that the 2019 squad was going to click right from the beginning was slim, regardless of the expectation.

It's incredibly frustrating to see a side with the ability to dominate losing 5 in a row, hopefully they've worked out whatever was holding them back out of their system and continue to build off the last 2 weeks.

With regards to coaching styles, I heard one coach a while back point out that if the coach can't set an example and control his anger during a match, how can he expect his players to do so on the field? Seeing coaches like Hasler, Toovey, Bellamy and Stuart going off their tree during a match is poor, save the rage for an appropriate time away from the cameras.

I think Brown realised that early on during his early coaching days when he slapped Barrett, we rarely see him get angry anymore.
 
Damo Levy said:
I think I heard Gus say 9 years. He had a five year plan at panthers and stayed even longer. I heard other commentators say at least 5 years.
No way you change a club culture in 3-4 years especially in the situation we were in.
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Also to add to my previous post for the millionth time there was no such thing as a five year plan and if anyone can find me a quote where Gus says that I’ll happily admit I’m wrong .

Even Gus himself hinted it may take up to five years to fix the mess Penrith were in in regards to footy on and off the field (Salary cap disaster, Being broke etc)

The media then took that as Gus saying he will win the panthers a premiereship in five years and everyone went with it.
 
jamesgould said:
Personally I'm more than happy to give him until the end of the year. To me, it looked like we just lacked confidence in those first few weeks. Not sure why ... we also seemed to be getting bullied a lot by opposition teams - faster line-speed and more aggression in the tackles.

So happy it's turned around now, but either way I'd have been sticking with Brown this year. There's no decent replacements anywhere at this time in the season, and I don't think his coaching is the problem. It's down to the players, I think ... against the Warriors showed the tactics are there behind the scenes, it's up to the players to go out and execute.

Personally I feel the non-angry, communicative style of coaching is most often going to be more effective than someone who goes off their nut every time we're behind.
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I am disappointed we lost those games we should have won but it goes to show that nothing is given and everything is earned. Perhaps the complacency made the guys think the wins will just come to them but the last two weeks they’ve really come out and wanted to earn the wins. And it’s showed in the results.
 
Wobbles said:
Absolutely. The likelihood that the 2019 squad was going to click right from the beginning was slim, regardless of the expectation.
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Well, there is clicking, and there is effort. I didn't expect the Knights squad to start the season in their best form in attack or defence. But I expected them to turn up each game and have a red hot go. Regardless of clicking, we would have won a few more games this year if they played with the effort shown in the last few weeks.

Personally, I think with the purchase of Klem, and all the hype around Ponga moving to 5/8, Pearce and Ponga going close in the dally M, all the media and so called experts tipping us to be top 8, even top 4, I believe they let that influence them and thought it would just happen. They just had to turn up and the Klem, Pearce and KP show would get them over the line.

It didn't happen and I think they realise that now. I will be very disappointed if they return to the sort of effort they were dishing up through those 5 losses.

I read something recently from a player saying they just weren't talking out on the field, that tells me they were not truly a team to that point, just a collection of players. Now, they are talking out there and it is showing in their performances.

I wonder, if the team continues to play with the effort shown the last two weeks, if Ponga was given another shot at 5/8, would we see a better showing than last time?

I don't think it would be wise to try it now, leave the spine as is for a while and let the team gel. But it's an interesting thought.
 
I always expected it to take 5 to 6 weeks for them to start coming good.

Im sick of seeing this poor effort for 5 weeks crap.
Besides the first 25 minutes vs manly and the whole game vs the Titans they played with plenty of effort.
The Ponga at 6 was a killer for the whole team.
I felt the game plan was revolved around fast tracking Ponga as a organisating half and it stalled everything
 
88Knight4life said:
Besides the first 25 minutes vs manly and the whole game vs the Titans they played with plenty of effort.
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Yeah Nah. You can call it effort or intensity, they were lacking it over that time.

You could immediately see the difference in intensity from the team from Parra game, and same for Warriors game.
 
Kurriboy said:
Yeah Nah. You can call it effort or intensity, they were lacking it over that time.

You could immediately see the difference in intensity from the team from Parra game, and same for Warriors game.
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Because they lost those games?

If you think the games VS Panthers, Canberra and Dragons we didnt try hard to win? Then you are a kidding yourself.
 
Kurriboy
Didn't read the thread but I am sure the razor blades were out again on here.

We have played 2 teams in 2 weeks from last years top 8.

Last week we won the game in the forwards, this week we competed but just missed opportunities and some dropped ball put us out of it. Line speed dropped a bit in the second half.

All in all we are going fine.

This is your first post after the Panthers game.

Kurriboy
Yep. Let's go back to one main playmaker and ponga at fb, Watson at 5/8.

You posted this during the Canberra game.

Kurriboy
Honestly, the blame for our season so far is on Brown and switching Ponga to 5/8 too early in his career. Last year, we had KP at the back and Pearce clearly the lead playmaker. Both of them did very well in Dally M points in a fairly drab season.

We make some good signings in the off season, and instead of building on last season and keeping what was working happening, he changes the team fairly dramatically for this 5/8 experiment and we get KP hype train go berserk, Pearce no longer the main playmaker with all the hype it's just give it to Ponga. No surprise Pearce has gone off the boil. Watson also, brought here to play 5/8, wanted the 5/8 role and booted to FB to make way for lord Ponga.

Ponga is a fantastic talent, but needed to be left at FB another few years, let the team settle in to it's rhythm.

All of the above is why our season has been a fairly poor start.

Hopefully now, with Ponga back at FB, Pearce can get on with running the attack, get Watson back to 5/8, though I did like the look of Lino there and think if given a few games there he would go well. Ideally I'd run Lino at 6 and Watson to bench utility role.

So far we have played 3 tough teams and the Raiders away which is a hell roadtrip for us.

The next 5 games are our season.

We get Manly, Titans, Eels, Warriors and Bulldogs.

If we can't get 4 out of those we are in trouble. 3 is absolute minimum.

Then this after the Dragons game.

Imo what im saying now still is what you've said already and forgotten it with a bit of bitterness due to the losses.
 
88, the first post was after 1 loss. There were 4 more losses in a row to come. Optimism at this point was strong.

The next post during the Raiders game I was identifying the Ponga experiment wasnt working. Wasnt wrong. That was while Pearce was in a slump and not trying his best. So Ponga in his transition to 5/8, along with all the pressure put on him from all over the place, he had to contend with a fairly average half partner and practically do it all himself. It proved too big a task.

If he were given another shot at it now, with the team firing better we would likely see a different outcome. Not that I want Brown swapping the spine around again.

The last quote is exactly where I believe the blame for our season going the way it has lies. With Brown.

Brown took a team that had performed fairly well in the year prior, we sign klemmer which really gave us the power in the forwards we lacked. Instead of sticking with what was working and build from there, he throws KP to 5/8, unleashes the media hype train and suddenly by many experts we are contenders.

I personally believe Pearce went quiet because of the Ponga move to 5/8. I believe many halbacks need to think they are the man! The main dude, and with Ponga moving to the halves ALL of the attention went to Ponga. And all of the expectation to create chances also went to Ponga. I believe that got to him and caused the drop in form. No coincidence Ponga moves back and Pearce starts recovering.

He should have left KP at fullback and built on last year. The hype train got in to the teams heads, they figured it would just happen, they had done the hard yards and could relax a bit. And that is why we saw games with low intensity from them. The team drifting along in games thinking everything was fine and it wasnt.

There was a game in there where after the first or second set of 6, I posted they were flat and not up for this game.
 
88Knight4life said:
So your saying what i said, But dont agree still?
Ok.
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No, I am saying what I said, feel free to agree with me if you like. :lol:

Above you said they were playing with plenty of effort, trying their best to win which I do not believe. They may have thought they were, but no, they weren't, for various reasons I believe, which I covered. That was the reason for this debate, call it effort, or intensity or whatever you want to call it.

There was a marked difference in intensity, these last few games vs earlier in the season. If you believe there was no change in intensity starting against Parra, then your kidding yourself.
 
Well 88 at least bthe excited chatter about Browny getting the chop is disappearing.

I would have thought Messrs. Green, Seibold, Cleary and Pay for starters would have been more in that line.
 
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