Kalyn Ponga

Discussion in 'Newcastle Knights Discussion' started by Aidos, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. rhugh89

    rhugh89 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  2. Lord of the Skraelings

    Lord of the Skraelings Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    Not a bad read, good young man, credit to his family.
     
  3. Chief Longhorn

    Chief Longhorn Paul Marquet

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    Kalyn is an amazing young talent, probably as good as I have seen, for this stage of his career!
    He just needs to keep a level head, keep working hard and stay of the p!ss and he could be anything!

    Kenny! What do you think????????

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Speedymetric

    Speedymetric Matt Hilder

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    I haven't been proven wrong about anything. I've consistently from the start said that Ponga has superior stats in try assists and line break assists, if you can prove it otherwise please do so. Also I have never "alluded" that Ponga is a better player than Edwards, I have maintained all along that if you take their games and stats so far in their entirety they are playing at similar levels at the moment. Again if you have any proof to the contrary please provide it.

    The original comment which sparked this debate was that the only fullbacks playing at a similar level to Ponga are Tuivasa-Sheck and Trbojevic. I disagree I think Tuivasa-Sheck, Trbojevic plus Edwards and even Dufty are playing at a similar level at the moment. If you look at all of the stats of all fullbacks you will see that Ponga is one of the best in attack, there's no doubt. But he is not streets ahead of the other fullbacks mentioned, he is a little bit ahead in some stats and a little bit behind in other stats. However in defence which is also a very important part of the game he is behind all fullbacks except Holmes. He is only a tiny bit behind and on par with Tuivasa-Sheck, but a fair way behind the others mentioned. He has missed three times as many tackles as Edwards and nearly five times as many as Dufty. So if you want to compare the fullbacks on all aspects of the game and not just concentrate on attack and try assists then the fact that Ponga's defence is not as strong as the others pulls him back to the field as it also does with Tuivasa-Sheck to make them all overall be playing at a similar level. Some better in attack, some better in defence but when taking all stats together as complete footballers the mentioned players are pretty similar.

    What makes tries more important than try assists? Well besides the obvious that you don't get points on the scoreboard for a try assist, you need to know what the definition is and how they are "calculated" which seems to be a grey area. For instance take Latrell Mitchell's try last night. Do you honestly think the player who caught and passed the ball to Mitchell deserves as much credit as Mitchell? If a playmaker does his job with one of the basic skills of the game, passing, hits a backrower who runs a great line and uses footwork and power to break the defence to score does the playmaker deserve as much credit as the backrower? If a player puts in a cross field kick and a winger times his run perfectly to out leap his opponent then dives over the cover defence to put the ball down one handed with the rest of his body in the air over the sideline does this kicker deserve as much credit as the winger? Does your centre you mention above deserve as much credit for catching and passing if the winger has to then use his pace, step and power to beat his man then ground the ball with his fingertips while being driven into touch by the fullback coming across in cover? Not all tries need assistance either, there can be individual tries, tries from kick returns, tries where a player knocks a ball free in a tackle then picks up to score etc etc. Don't these individual efforts that were done solely by the skill, strength, determination etc of an individual player deserve more credit than rewarding basic skills like drawing and passing or passing to a player running a hot line? Sure try assists are very important and there are circumstances where the try assist did much more than the actual try scorer but unless you know definitively what was actually required of the assist and exactly what the definition of a try assist is then a try will in most circumstances be more important.
     
  5. Lord of the Skraelings

    Lord of the Skraelings Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    I'll be honest my attention span drifts off after anything longer than 50 words in a post.
     
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  6. Speedymetric

    Speedymetric Matt Hilder

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    The only one on the money.

    Seems I'm one of the tiny minority on here who is prepared to evaluate things objectively and be honest enough to air my opinion that some players have deficiencies in areas that may need improvement.

    No doubt I'm also one of the very few on here that didn't splurge on GF tickets the second Pearce kicked his field goal in round one and doesn't have to buy two copies of Big League every time there is an article on Ponga in it as the pages in one copy always become glued together and unreadable!
     
  7. 88Knight4life

    88Knight4life Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    Big league part is gold!!
     
  8. Chief Longhorn

    Chief Longhorn Paul Marquet

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    Welcome aboard Speedy!
    upload_2018-4-13_12-46-55.jpeg
     
  9. member 2299

    member 2299 Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    Writing is like talking.

    Some folk never know when to shut up. Speedy doews like thew sound of his own voice.
     
  10. Beaumont

    Beaumont Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    Obviously if you haven't had a stiffy for 3 years the first time there's even a sniff of success it's difficult to contain oneself. We'll win the comp, Ponga will be Churchill Medallist and we'll be all digging out as many copies of the GF edition of Big League as we can get.
     
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  11. Billy

    Billy Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    The problem with working out where Ponga needs to improve is that he is such a fast learner that, by the time you work out what he needs to fix, he's already fixed it.
    Most of the things I was worried about in the pre season, like being a bit suss under the high ball etc, are all fixed now as far as I can see.
     
  12. BargeArse

    BargeArse Robbie McCormack

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    You keep bringing up stats, wanting to compare players off of stats. The end of your post is precisely why you shouldn’t. It’s a cheap way to compare/judge players as you’re only getting a portion of the picture. That’s why I said going off of the eye ball test, Ponga has shown more ability than Edwards and is actually proving to be one of the games best talents. You only need to watch him.

    You read a stat sheet after the game and only see numbers. Says nothing about his freakish talent/ability. Doesn’t show the half chances he creates. Doesn’t show his elite footwork. Doesn’t show him single handily creating something out of nothing in attack and making those around him better. Doesn’t show his positional play. Doesn’t show him putting his body on the line, getting smashed and still not making an error. Lots of things don’t show up on the stat sheet.

    In this day and age with fantasy football so popular, I think fans judge players off of that and off of stats. It makes a LOT of fans who don’t consistently watch games misinformed. For example, Aaron Woods has always put up elite numbers for a prop. When you watch him but, he makes no impact, is slow, forces offloads, gets turtled and worked in tackles, has slow play the balls, has poor lateral agility in defence, can be lazy, etc. None of that shows up on the stat sheet, only his 30 tackles, 15 hitups and 150 metres. Looks like he’s all-world when in reality he made little impact on the game and actually has a lot of negatives.

    The only reason I used stats was because you brought it up and said Ponga doesn’t dominate Edwards statistically in attack. Looking at his playmaking stats (try assists and line break assists) and actually watching him and seeing most of it is created out of nothing and off the back of his own natural ability – he does dominate Edwards in attack. Stats allude to it and the eye ball test show it tenfold.
     
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  13. Aidos

    Aidos Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Stats aren't everything, especially in defence for a fullback. Being the last line of defence there's more variables. Kalyn has been very solid defensively from the back. Positioning has been first class which doesn't show in stats for example

    Edwards has been good but Tuivasa-Sheck has been a much better fullback than him this year, too.
     
  14. Nickwpearce

    Nickwpearce Banned

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    :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:
     
  15. Frank McWilliams

    Frank McWilliams Clint Newton

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    I don't know about the rest of you but "Speedie" is not a breath of fresh air, those long winded carries on are too much, lost me after a line or two or was it more to do with couldn't be bothered.
    Please tone it down and shorten it.
     
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  16. Kurriboy

    Kurriboy Darren Albert

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    We need a TLDR.



    Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
     
  17. LEVR

    LEVR Banned

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    Lmfao

    Speddy is CBM. The bloke probably just uses different devices, a work phone/computer. Lol at the argument of different proxys. Painting the picture of an Assange level cover effort is as dumb as it is disingenuous

    If you cant concede that it is even probable that it could be him, then i am offically calling you stupid.

    Gouldy needs to calm down too, going too hard son. Kick back
     
  18. 88Knight4life

    88Knight4life Danny 'Bedsy' Buderus

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    Pfffffffffffffffffft.

    Can we keep speedy and lose u.....
     
  19. danknights

    danknights Timana Tahu

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    Hahah oh stop it!!
     
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  20. packo

    packo :) (:

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    If Speedy isn’t Kenny than I’m Santa Claus.
     

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